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 Posted:   Jul 8, 2019 - 9:03 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

I was going to jokingly include you in the list of possibilities, but figured then it would have debuted years ago. One wonders what other gems you are sitting on, so to speak.

Many. As I've posted before, many years ago Brian Burney of A-1 Recordfinders got in a huge and rather incredible collection of reel-to-reel tapes from the family of a deceased collector - amazing stuff really, that I've had ever since. They're all in boxes, some here in the garage, some in the warehouse where the Kritzerland stuff is. Occasionally I go see what's there, and then have to have it transferred and cleaned up. Other than titles on boxes, there's nothing really identifying where these came from or how he got them so it's all a crapshoot, but so far we've been lucky.




Bruce, do you know what happened to Brian Burney? Hope all is well with him. Back in 1970/71 I was in the Navy in Long Beach and on weekends I hunted for soundtrack LP's in and around Hollywood Blvd. I used to talk with Brian when he worked at the Cosmopolitan Book Store on Western Ave. I believe. When he started A-l Record Finders about 1971 I bought all the new soundtrack LP's from him for the next 12 years or so. As A-l then faded away I bought from the new Intrada Records and Doug Fake. Any news on Brian?

Was the deceased collector Frank Squires? I meet Frank a few times in 1971 and 1973. We traded some LP's in the early 1970's and exchanged letters.



 
 Posted:   Jul 8, 2019 - 9:09 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

[ Jerry Goldsmith ( sans ponytail) signals his approval]

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 8, 2019 - 10:24 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

It may well have been Frank Squires, although it's over forty years ago now smile

Not sure where Brian Turney is these days. Lord, did I spend a lot of money with him over the years. There were times when I was at his place on Melrose three or four times a week, because he'd always call me and let me know in advance when he'd gotten stuff. I was the ONLY person who bought the reel-to-reel stuff - no one else even looked at it.

 
 Posted:   Jul 8, 2019 - 11:23 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

Unless I'm reading it wrong...Bruce said the tapes have titles on the boxes. But I would imagine the big hold-up before investing time and money in cleaning up these tapes is finding the rights-holders and acquiring the right to release them. So often you hear it's hard to locate who owns what and that sometimes when you do, they don't want to give you the time of day. Or probably even worse, when you talk money, they put their little finger up to the corner of their mouth and say, "Sure I'll sell you the rights....for a meeeeel-yun dollars!"

But I speculate. I'm sure Bruce has a handle on what is feasible to work on in this collection. And I'm so glad he has the love of the music and the passion to get these treasures out for the modest return they generate. Nobody is getting rich releasing old soundtracks.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 9, 2019 - 1:25 AM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

Unless I'm reading it wrong...Bruce said the tapes have titles on the boxes. But I would imagine the big hold-up before investing time and money in cleaning up these tapes is finding the rights-holders and acquiring the right to release them. So often you hear it's hard to locate who owns what and that sometimes when you do, they don't want to give you the time of day. Or probably even worse, when you talk money, they put their little finger up to the corner of their mouth and say, "Sure I'll sell you the rights....for a meeeeel-yun dollars!"

But I speculate. I'm sure Bruce has a handle on what is feasible to work on in this collection. And I'm so glad he has the love of the music and the passion to get these treasures out for the modest return they generate. Nobody is getting rich releasing old soundtracks.


Believe me no one is getting rich smile

Some boxes have titles, some don't, but none have actual track titles and there is literally no information at all about what's on the tapes, so it's complicated. I've had some nice luck in releasing a few of these, though, and I'll keep at it.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 9, 2019 - 2:49 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

I'm fascinated by this. A lot of thoughts are coming into my head which I'll have to get out before rushing off to work, so forgive the incoherenece. In no particular order...

The first thing that came to mind was PRESSURE POINT (score by Gold, on Kritzerland label). I think that Antheil had worked for Stanley Kramer on some previous films whose names escape me, with Ernest Gold as orchestrator, is that correct? Did that lead to the PRESSURE POINT assignment? I guess so, dumb question, I'm in a mad hurry.

Why am I talking about PRESSURE POINT? Well, that's got a lot of wonderfully nightmarish sounds on it, as has DEMENTIA. I hear a connection. The two DEMENTIAs I mean DEMENTIA and DAUGHTER OF HORROR) are up on YouTube to compare. I only watched five minutes of each, but the one without dialogue looks brilliant, almost like the experimental films of Maya Deren. I'm going to check this stuff out.

I know Bruce thinks that track times look ugly, but I wish Kritzerland included them. I'm imagining that DEMENTIA has almost wall to wall scoring (Edit - I see that Bruce confirms this in the opening post). Maybe I'm wrong there, but with only four (or is it five?) tracks, they're either very long, or a lot of the score is missing. An early assumption, apologies if wrong. I seem to recall that the Gold piano concerto is almost half an hour, so that's a hefty chunk of the CD.

Was the Shorty Rogers material integrated into the score, or was it a different entity? Does any of it appear on the CD? There is some jazzy stuff in the first scene of the film, but it sounds like part of the Antheil score. I know there's a cellar sequence in the film in which Rogers and Jimmy Giuffre etc appear.

Marni Nixon! Did she ever work with Les Baxter? I'm reminded of the wailings in HOUSE OF USHER, but maybe I'm thinking of Russ Garcia. Sorry, beginning to really ramble now.

Right, that's me late for work. Seeya around!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 9, 2019 - 4:28 AM   
 By:   Bill Cooke   (Member)

Was the Shorty Rogers material integrated into the score, or was it a different entity? Does any of it appear on the CD? There is some jazzy stuff in the first scene of the film, but it sounds like part of the Antheil score. I know there's a cellar sequence in the film in which Rogers and Jimmy Giuffre etc appear.

When we first enter the cellar club, the music that Shorty Rogers is playing appears to be his band's material and not Antheil's; however, later on, Antheil takes over as the band begins to play the Antheil theme. I assume this part was recorded by Antheil, not by Rogers. The main character, known as the Gamine, starts to dance to the seductive tune, and the scene becomes something akin to a beatnik Dance of the Seven Veils. As the scene morphs into a surrealistic nightmare, the orchestral score takes over.

 
 Posted:   Jul 9, 2019 - 7:20 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Some boxes have titles, some don't, but none have actual track titles and there is literally no information at all about what's on the tapes, so it's complicated. I've had some nice luck in releasing a few of these, though, and I'll keep at it.

Cue names are the least of your worries when you don't know the movie title. But making the initial transfer would preserve the contents, and samples could be uploaded for movie buffs to identify, especially tracks that sound like Main and End titles.
It doesnt have to be expensive or done by a studio. Consumer equipment can be used to make digital copies - a reel to reel player hooked up to a CD recorder, or to a digital box and computer. Being burnt out, I would be overwhelmed, but I know others do this kind of copying, and would dive in and do it 24/7. Or just hire a high school kid to do it. wink

Regardless, very happy with this release, and got a chuckle from your cue names. The cover art is nice, and even the webpage is a pleasure to look at.

 
 Posted:   Jul 9, 2019 - 7:37 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Exactly right. Bruce could use the knowledgeable community here to identify a lot of what he has I suspect (manderly alone, if he’s still around as I hope?)

Heck, he could even start a new “mystery track” thread like the one he has going now, but focused on the mystery tracks in his own collection....

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 9, 2019 - 9:15 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

Was the Shorty Rogers material integrated into the score, or was it a different entity? Does any of it appear on the CD? There is some jazzy stuff in the first scene of the film, but it sounds like part of the Antheil score. I know there's a cellar sequence in the film in which Rogers and Jimmy Giuffre etc appear.

When we first enter the cellar club, the music that Shorty Rogers is playing appears to be his band's material and not Antheil's; however, later on, Antheil takes over as the band begins to play the Antheil theme. I assume this part was recorded by Antheil, not by Rogers. The main character, known as the Gamine, starts to dance to the seductive tune, and the scene becomes something akin to a beatnik Dance of the Seven Veils. As the scene morphs into a surrealistic nightmare, the orchestral score takes over.


It's an interesting sequence of scenes, Bill. When they enter the club, it's Antheil's score in "semi-diegetic" mode - Shorty Rogers and His Giants are there, but it almost just looks like they're jammin', and there's little real attempt to match what the musicians are actually doing to what we hear. Then there's a sharp cut and it's a purely jazz scene with Shorty and his band doing their number. After that it's back to the surreal mixture of watching Rogers and his band do their stuff but hearing a kind of non-synched ersatz-jazz Antheil piece. Which is basically (I think) what you were saying.

I've just watched the film (the proper one, not the re-release with the voice-over), and it's amazingly bizarre, coming out of Hollywood at that time. No wonder it didn't find an audience. So glad it didn't have a big budget and real stars in it. And yes, I was reminded more than anything of the films of Maya Daren. I'm no film expert, having only seen a couple of dozen movies in my life, and none made after 1979, but DEMENTIA is for me what (part of) good cinema is all about.

Antheil's score really does hold it together, although it's not a film easily held together. With the Marni Nixon vocal effects, we're nearly into Corman-Price-Poe territory. And yeah, it does go a bit wonky and nightmarish, which could be a bit annoying as a listen, but once you see the film you'll appreciate it a lot more. Just as I did with PRESSURE POINT. Why all those wonky marches and stuff in PRESSURE POINT? Then I saw the film and it clicked with me. Sometimes you really have to see the film. And other times it's better not to.

So there you go. I watched this film with my cousin Benji who's over from the good ol' USA. He's not very bright, but he's seen GLEN AND GLENDA and PLAN 9 FROM OUTER SPACE. He asked me after ten minutes, "Is this an Ed Wood Junior movie?", and when I replied that no, it seemed to me more akin to the experimental work of Maya Deren, he shut up. Saying that, we're not that far apart intellectually, old cousin Benji and I, so I really can't say if DEMENTIA (the film) is perceived by the highbrow in the same way that it was perceived by Benji. I don't care - I like what I like, and I LOVED this film.

 
 Posted:   Jul 9, 2019 - 9:28 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

IMDB specifies the song "Wig Alley" by Shorty Rogers was used. Would that be separate from this soundtrack, or is that what gets adapted by Antheil?
I always associate the film with budget Orson Welles doppelganger Bruno Vesota as the inspiration and director of the film. Although this might not be completely accurate.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 9, 2019 - 10:25 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

IMDB specifies the song "Wig Alley" by Shorty Rogers was used. Would that be separate from this soundtrack, or is that what gets adapted by Antheil?
I always associate the film with budget Orson Welles doppelganger Bruno Vesota as the inspiration and director of the film. Although this might not be completely accurate.


Testing -

Damn, when I'm operating from my spaceship my cutter and paster gets broke. Find the film yourselves on YouTube!

In the "proper" film (no voiceover), it's worth taking ten minutes out of your life to watch the whole jazz sequence. And if you've got an hour, watch the whole film! But if you've only got ten minutes...

41:30 - They enter the jazz club. Once we see the musicians, it's Antheil "doing" their jazz. Then there's a scene without the musicians and we hear Antheil doing his version of a Corman/Poe film.

44.30 - Shorty does his jazz piece, "Wig Alley", with no interference from Antheil.

48:00 - Shorty starts his second number. Things get really interesting with the Antheil score mixing with the jazz. Is it "Wig Alley" though? I can't remember. It was so long ago when I started typing this and then fretting about not getting the link to work.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 9, 2019 - 11:27 AM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

IMDB specifies the song "Wig Alley" by Shorty Rogers was used. Would that be separate from this soundtrack, or is that what gets adapted by Antheil?
I always associate the film with budget Orson Welles doppelganger Bruno Vesota as the inspiration and director of the film. Although this might not be completely accurate.


Testing -

Damn, when I'm operating from my spaceship my cutter and paster gets broke. Find the film yourselves on YouTube!

In the "proper" film (no voiceover), it's worth taking ten minutes out of your life to watch the whole jazz sequence. And if you've got an hour, watch the whole film! But if you've only got ten minutes...

41:30 - They enter the jazz club. Once we see the musicians, it's Antheil "doing" their jazz. Then there's a scene without the musicians and we hear Antheil doing his version of a Corman/Poe film.

44.30 - Shorty does his jazz piece, "Wig Alley", with no interference from Antheil.

48:00 - Shorty starts his second number. Things get really interesting with the Antheil score mixing with the jazz. Is it "Wig Alley" though? I can't remember. It was so long ago when I started typing this and then fretting about not getting the link to work.


Yes, Wig Alley is not Antheil, it's Shorty.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 9, 2019 - 3:07 PM   
 By:   John Black   (Member)

I knew Brian Burney in the early-mid 1990's. At that time, his record warehouse on Melrose was actually open to the public (previously, I only knew him on a mail-order basis).

I traveled to LA every other year from the late seventies through the mid nineties, and A-1 Record Finders was always a destination, along with various record/video/book/memorabilia/magazine stores.

To return to topic, I'm really happy to see DEMENTIA/DOH released. I have the Kino DVD in my collection, which may or may not be still in print. That's the DVD that has no graphics on the spine, not even the film title.

 
 Posted:   Jul 9, 2019 - 7:45 PM   
 By:   DavidinBerkeley   (Member)

Wow, what a cool twofer! And, if I am not mistaken, a complete commercial premiere (the Antheil score) being paired with a (no doubt improved sound) remaster of the Gold concerto. I personally really like it when premieres are combined with improved editions of other pieces, and I think it will usually lead to better sales than pairing two reissues would do.

I'm a bit Antheil fan so I'm very interested in this release although I am completely unfamiliar with the score. Correct me if I'm wrong, Bruce... but isn't this only the second time in history that there's been a full length album release of an Antheil film score, after The Pride and the Passion?

Yavar


Yep.


Maybe then, there is hope for THE SNIPER!

 
 Posted:   Jul 9, 2019 - 7:48 PM   
 By:   DavidinBerkeley   (Member)

Awesome samples of DEMENTIA. This is on my list now!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 9, 2019 - 11:09 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

Ordered the Anthiel/Gold and the Kern immediately. Wonderful news all around.

Yes, Anthiel wrote sores for young independent producer Stanley Kramer, including one which Bruce didn't happen to mention in his list above but which has long been one of my holy grails: THE JUGGLER, a Kirk Douglas drama filmed in Israel.

Bruce, dare I hope...?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 10, 2019 - 5:05 AM   
 By:   nevinson1966   (Member)

Great to read news of this release,absolute buy for me.Anthiel is greatly neglected which is a shame.Let's hope more gems come to light.My Anthiel holy grail is THE PRIDE AND THE PASSION,a magnificent score that badly needs a complete release if the masters still exist. Better still a new re-recording would be a dream come true.James Fitzpatrick loves this score,but the cost-well??????!!!.Maybe a kickstarter for this one,I'm definatly in for that!!!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2019 - 2:22 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)


Go to Wikipedia and type in: George Antheil

What a talented and unusual man!

 
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