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 Posted:   Jan 18, 2019 - 12:22 PM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

...Arthur Morton really helped our beloved JG action flicks with his orchestration...


A controversial view in these parts smile

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2019 - 12:57 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Arthur Morton really helped our beloved JG action flicks with his orchestration, I love the use of muted piano for percussion in particular, it's SO JG).

I don't know if Morton himself ever commented on this, but several of JG's orchestrators over the years have described themselves as glorified copyists when it comes to his work, with his sketches being extremely detailed in terms of orchestration and dynamics. Jerry Goldsmith started out his career without any orchestrators at all (including on his early feature films) and only resorted to the provided studio orchestrators when they were necessary for time purposes.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2019 - 1:05 PM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

Arthur Morton really helped our beloved JG action flicks with his orchestration, I love the use of muted piano for percussion in particular, it's SO JG).

I don't know if Morton himself ever commented on this, but several of JG's orchestrators over the years have described themselves as glorified copyists when it comes to his work, with his sketches being extremely detailed in terms of orchestration and dynamics. Jerry Goldsmith started out his career without any orchestrators at all (including on his early feature films) and only resorted to the provided studio orchestrators when they were necessary for time purposes.

Yavar


Did we just talk about this today in our email? wink

When I first fell in love with Bernard's music, I took upon myself his view that having someone orchestrate one's work was like letting someone else color your painting. Upon further investigation I found out what Yavar says above...seems to me JG had a real good idea of what he wanted for instrumentation, his sketches prove that. Same with Rozsa, btw.

Even Beethoven had copy editors, folks.

I do think JG's orchestrators had a really good idea of what the Jerry Goldsmith Musical Voice was all about and, when faced with such duties applied that knowledge.

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2019 - 1:17 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

I don't remember discussing it in a *recent* email, anyways... but I do think I've read that one exception where Jerry relied more on an orchestrator's superior experience was when he started writing for voices in the mid-70s (The Omen specifically, and presumably QBVII before it). Not that the choral writing wasn't Jerry's, but I think he got a lot of advice in terms of balancing the chorus with the orchestra.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2019 - 1:43 PM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

I don't remember discussing it in a *recent* email, anyways... but I do think I've read that one exception where Jerry relied more on an orchestrator's superior experience was when he started writing for voices in the mid-70s (The Omen specifically, and presumably QBVII before it). Not that the choral writing wasn't Jerry's, but I think he got a lot of advice in terms of balancing the chorus with the orchestra.

Yavar


I ask because I think the last letter I wrote you I talked about the orchestration thing. But as you mentioned, not a big deal, it's an interesting topic...

hey wait, the whole orchestration thing might actually make a VERY interesting topic, though I'm not sure how many replies we'd get. Might be worth a try (forgive if this thread always exists).

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2019 - 2:25 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

There are certainly a few documented cases of an orchestrator making his mark...Gerard Schurmann on Lawrence of Arabia, Exodus, and The Vikings (all by different composers), for example. Or in more recent years, you can tell the influence Nicholas Dodd has on the composers he has collaborated with, from Arnold to Lockington to Danna to (Joel) Goldsmith...

But I can't think of any instance where someone has said, "oh those orchestrations sound like ______ (orchestrator)" on a Jerry Goldsmith score. It always sounds like Jerry Goldsmith.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2019 - 2:46 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

There are certainly a few documented cases of an orchestrator making his mark...Gerard Schurmann on Lawrence of Arabia, Exodus, and The Vikings (all by different composers), for example. Or in more recent years, you can tell the influence Nicholas Dodd has on the composers he has collaborated with, from Arnold to Lockington to Danna to (Joel) Goldsmith...

But I can't think of any instance where someone has said, "oh those orchestrations sound like ______ (orchestrator)" on a Jerry Goldsmith score. It always sounds like Jerry Goldsmith.

Yavar


...or Arthur Morton?

 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2019 - 5:51 PM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

I think Yavar meant that the style one hears in a JG composition, regardless of aides, is JG, which I heartily agree with (the same applies to Alfred). I could be wrong, Yavar, so forgive me if so.

What I meant is guys like Morton knew how to emphasize certain instruments, dynamics, etc. in order to underscore Jerry's musical personality and myriad other aims. He was essential not just in relieving JG of some of the work, but in making sure little boo boos in the orchestration are fixed, scrubbing notational errors....perhaps even going as far as suggesting a different arrangement. More than a few of these things are part and parcel of being a music producer as well, btw.

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2019 - 9:23 AM   
 By:   Jeff Bond   (Member)

Morton himself is the guy who said of his work with Goldsmith, "I take the music from the yellow paper and put it on the white paper." All you have to do is listen to Goldsmith's scores done WITHOUT Morton--Bandolero, which is Herbert Spencer, for example. There's virtually no difference in sound and approach between that and Planet of the Apes, orchestrated by Morton and done around the same time. It's not that Morton's contribution isn't important, but I think it's just more subtle than most people think. I think Morton was able to give Goldsmith's music a thickness on certain scores that might have sounded a little different coming from Alexander Courage or someone else. But the sound, Goldsmith's choice of instrumental voicings, effects, etc., would be the same and come from Goldsmith himself, not an orchestrator.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2019 - 12:28 PM   
 By:   William R.   (Member)

Christopher Palmer is probably a good example of an orchestrator who "left his mark" on the scores of others. The Heavy Metal liner notes indicate that Bernstein allowed Palmer and David Spear lots of creative freedom for the classic "Taarna's Flight" piece, and of course it was Palmer who introduced Bernstein to the Ondes and recommended it for the score.

Palmer's collaborations with Maurice Jarre in the mid-80s (Enemy Mine, Tai-Pan, Thunderdome ) have a grandeur that sets them apart from other Jarre scores.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2019 - 1:09 PM   
 By:   Jim Cleveland   (Member)

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