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 Posted:   Aug 4, 2018 - 5:10 AM   
 By:   FabioS   (Member)

Wikipedia’s page on Max Steiner needs some editing. I don’t know about HTML so I can’t fix it.

Misquoting Christopher Palmer's book "The Composer in Hollywood", it says that Steiner used Franz Schubert's Ave Maria at the end of The Informer. It’s not the Schubert piece and, in fact, is called Sancta Maria. An original Steiner melody as far as I know. Palmer’s book is also used as reference to affirm that The Big Sleep and The Letter are his best noir scores.

The Wikipedia text then states that “Steiner actually first composed the theme from Since You Went Away while helping Franz Waxman with his score for Rebecca.” Max was considered as composer for Rebecca (1940), but the theme heard in Hitchcock’s film and later in Since You Went Away (1944) was written by him for A Star Is Born (1937). All three were produced by David Selznick, for whom Steiner worked on Gone With the Wind and other pictures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Steiner

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 4, 2018 - 5:45 AM   
 By:   Brad Wills   (Member)

Wikipedia’s page on Max Steiner needs some editing. I don’t know about HTML so I can’t fix it.

Misquoting Christopher Palmer's book "The Composer in Hollywood", it says that Steiner used Franz Schubert's Ave Maria at the end of The Informer. It’s not the Schubert piece and, in fact, is called Sancta Maria. An original Steiner melody as far as I know. Palmer’s book is also used as reference to affirm that The Big Sleep and The Letter are his best noir scores.

The Wikipedia text then states that “Steiner actually first composed the theme from Since You Went Away while helping Franz Waxman with his score for Rebecca.” Max was considered as composer for Rebecca (1940), but the theme heard in Hitchcock’s film and later in Since You Went Away (1944) was written by him for A Star Is Born (1937). All three were produced by David Selznick, for whom Steiner worked on Gone With the Wind and other pictures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Steiner


Editing on Wikipedia is very easy. After the heading of each section, you will see "edit source". Simply click on that and you'll be able to make the corrections.

 
 Posted:   Aug 4, 2018 - 8:07 AM   
 By:   Jeff Bond   (Member)

Does it credit him for Lost in Space pilot score?

 
 Posted:   Aug 4, 2018 - 9:18 AM   
 By:   Ray Faiola   (Member)

Wikipedia is contributed to and edited by anybody. It is a worthless resource for anybody interested in accurate information.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 4, 2018 - 10:07 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Wrong information on Wikipedia? What is the world coming to?

 
 Posted:   Aug 4, 2018 - 10:22 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Fabio, if you are going to take it upon yourself to attempt the corrections, be prepared that someone else may dispute it and have your changes reversed.
And from experience I can tell you that the mods there are not always qualified or competent.
Also, if you don't quote your sources in the footnotes they will probably dismiss your changes out of hand.

 
 Posted:   Aug 4, 2018 - 10:24 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Wikipedia is contributed to and edited by anybody. It is a worthless resource for anybody interested in accurate information.

Yet, YouTube now links videos to a Wiki page in an effort to provide "real" information.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 4, 2018 - 12:45 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Wikipedia is contributed to and edited by anybody. It is a worthless resource for anybody interested in accurate information.


I think that calling it "worthless" is a bit harsh. Plenty of Wikipedia articles have extensive footnotes and reference citations. Given the state of fact-checking in mainstream publishing these days, why should we give any extra credence to unsourced information in books, magazines, or newspaper articles?

 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2020 - 8:12 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2020 - 11:33 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

Wikipedia’s page on Max Steiner needs some editing. I don’t know about HTML so I can’t fix it.

Yes, you can! Deleting, replacing, or modifying a sentence is very simple. Just go to the Edit mode, highlight the passage, then fix it. There's a preview mode to test your improved version. Then you can save it.

Some features are admittedly more difficult: italics, diacritics, cross-references, etc. Wikipedia has tutorials on all such things. You can let them go for now. Footnoting is also challenging, but you can take the easy route at first and just cite your source in the text. The more you fix, the easier it will become.

I must disagree with Ray's comment above. Wikipedia today is a fabulously useful resource for those of us who lack ready access to a great research library. Yes, it is very uneven. Use with caution! But it benefits from the efforts of genuine enthusiasts who (like many folks in this forum) know a lot about their subject. Editing Wikipedia articles would be a far better use of time for film music mavens than wondering whether an album is to be released on Monday or Tuesday or debating the merits of the second or third alternate take of some cue.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2020 - 12:02 PM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

I made a couple of small fixes myself, just since posting the above a few minutes ago. The documentation of this article is confused. Somebody added lots of footnotes (a good thing) but seems to have botched the formatting. Note sequence is out of order and the page references seem to have wandered outside of the notes. There's an absurd claim that the KING KONG orchestra had eighty members, which seems to be footnoted but ought to be checked.

 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2020 - 12:10 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

According to FSM's notes for their release:
"Depending upon the requirements of the score, Barry conducted orchestras ranging in size from 58 to 67 players."

Source: https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/notes/king_kong.html

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2020 - 1:01 PM   
 By:   filmusicnow   (Member)

I remember reading Wikipedia's entry on "Ben-Hur" and they said when the film was first seen on television on 2/12/'71 it was seen once again and went into syndication when actually C.B.S. repeated it on Good Friday '74 and on the day before Memorial Day '77. It then it went into syndication (typical of Wikipedia's mistakes).

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2020 - 2:22 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

According to FSM's notes for their release:
"Depending upon the requirements of the score, Barry conducted orchestras ranging in size from 58 to 67 players."

Source: https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/notes/king_kong.html




Since this topic is about Max Steiner, I think Rozsaphile is referring to Steiner's 1933 King Kong.

 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2020 - 2:33 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

I honestly forgot abut the two separate films.

(I'm obviously not a Kong fan, having done this...)

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2020 - 6:36 PM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

I remember reading Wikipedia's entry on "Ben-Hur" and they said when the film was first seen on television on 2/12/'71 it was seen once again and went into syndication when actually C.B.S. repeated it on Good Friday '74 and on the day before Memorial Day '77. It then it went into syndication (typical of Wikipedia's mistakes).

So did you correct it? The change wouldn't have taken much longer than it takes to post here. As the Wiki article stands now (it may have been edited since you looked), there are two footnotes documenting the telecast dates. Of course, a footnote is not necessarily definitive. The writer may have cited an inferior source. If you have a better one, you should definitely cite it!

 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2020 - 9:22 PM   
 By:   sajrocks   (Member)

Rozsaphile wrote:
Wikipedia today is a fabulously useful resource for those of us who lack ready access to a great research library. Yes, it is very uneven. Use with caution! But it benefits from the efforts of genuine enthusiasts who (like many folks in this forum) know a lot about their subject.

THIS. What's more, for better or worse the media, young academics and burgeoning enthusiasts often use it as a one-stop shop for any and all information they are looking for. This is exacerbated by the fact that algorithms rank them so high on search lists, usually at the top. No one in this community is going to be able to stop or fix it, and it's not going to stop or go away, but we can certainly take the time to ensure that details on our favorite composers are accurate, well-sourced and up-to-date. I learned this the hard way.

Last year I noticed that a composer I've been following since the 1980s (and the wily days of microfiche!) started having consistent misinformation follow them around during a sudden burst of media attention. I was able to follow it back to their woefully untended Wikipedia page. It took a few weeks but I finally got it up to speed and now only have to go back for an occasional pruning and to fight the vandals. There have been about 500,000 visitors to the page since the update, and in my mind that's about 500,000 better informed now and future fans.

Editing Wikipedia articles would be a far better use of time for film music mavens than wondering whether an album is to be released on Monday or Tuesday or debating the merits of the second or third alternate take of some cue.

Can't we do both? wink

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2020 - 9:53 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

Here's an interesting example. The Alfred Newman article isn't bad, but for years it misstated the subject's birth year as 1901. (Newman was actually born in 1900, but for some reason he subtracted a year from his age and the mistake was perpetuated in dozens of sources for decades.) I kept correcting the Wiki entry, and some well-meaning soul should kept changing it back to 1901. He was innocently following a misguided source. We argued the subject in Wiki's Talk Page. That feature, like the "Article History" page, is a valuable way to get inside the editing process. Finally, I provided the best documentation, namely, Fred Steiner's dissertation and Dictionary of American Biography article. I was reminded to make the change in both the text and the special box that accompanies biographical entries. In this case we agreed that the controversy was worth describing in the article itself. Problem solved at last. (At least it was correct the last time I looked.)

Not every correction process becomes as convoluted as that one. But bit by bit, full accuracy is approached. Think of it as building a cathedral of knowledge. It may take centuries, but the end product will be a thing of beauty and value.

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2020 - 10:02 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

The Newman wiki age still says 1900.

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2020 - 6:28 PM   
 By:   Sir David of Garland   (Member)

But it benefits from the efforts of genuine enthusiasts who (like many folks in this forum) know a lot about their subject.

But know almost zip about

-proper citations
-not plagiarizing
-civil disagreement
-academic writing, in general

I give Wikipedia about as much credence as I give to things I hear at a party, unless sources are cited. Hence, it's a great place to hear gossip, mostly.


 
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