I've been listening to all your podcasts including your latest (in which you've outdone yourselves). I just wanted to comment on some of the TWILIGHT ZONE scores.
DUST, with its repeating phrases, seems the most Herrmannesque of Jerry's work. "March to the Gallows" always seemed to me to be referencing the Dies Irae - it doesn't quote it entirely, but seems to "flirt" with it a bit.
You're right! Nice catch; I wish one of us had noted it. In retrospect it seems so obvious. I will say that I think a *lot* of early Goldsmith is somewhat Herrmanneque (more than it is Northian), which we were noting all over our first dozen episodes or so of the podcast, bringing up Herrmann all the time. Perhaps the most Herrmannesque of the stuff we've covered so far are a handful of his CBS library cues.
Speaking of THE INVADERS, I'd like to point out that of all of Jerry's TWILIGHT ZONE's (including the movie), it is the only one that can really be called science fiction and thus represents Jerry's first foray into this genre (the other ZONE's involve fantastical events unrelated true science fiction - magic realism, if you will).
Good point that it's Jerry's first foray into the genre, with The Twilight Zone...but I don't think it was his first foray into the genre, period. Does Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde from 1955 not count? I thought that was pretty universally recognized as sci-fi, if not the spaceship variety of sci-fi...
The following year 1956, Jerry had some radio projects that I think qualify as sci-fi, although this first one (which more like "The Invaders" is set "offworld") is pretty darn weird...
And then there's the Ray Bradbury episode which I like rather more:
You guys are collectively doing an excellent job on these podcasts and I have to admit I sorta miss the infectious giggling of Yens in your newer shows - however, I still think the shows are getting better and better.
Thanks so much. I miss his infectious giggling too, but Jens is enjoying his semi-retirement from the podcast at the moment (I've still been keeping him busy with a bunch of interview episodes to edit!) but we all look forward to the day when he joins us again, as Host Emeritus.
Yavar
P.S. Wish I'd been there for the trip, Kuhni! I think you'll appreciate something we have in the works...
First off, my apologies to Jens for misspelling his name. I guess I'll now have to refer to Yavar as Javar!
I will say that I think a *lot* of early Goldsmith is somewhat Herrmanneque (more than it is Northian), which we were noting all over our first dozen episodes or so of the podcast, bringing up Herrmann all the time. Perhaps the most Herrmannesque of the stuff we've covered so far are a handful of his CBS library cues.
Oh I remember the Herrmann references in your previous podcasts - and even though the influence of Herrmann follows Goldsmith even later in his career, there was something about the radio and TV works that brought out the most Herrmannesque passages in his music. I simply thought DUST turned the Herrmann style up to 10.
Good point that it's Jerry's first foray into the genre, with The Twilight Zone...but I don't think it was his first foray into the genre, period. Does Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde from 1955 not count? I thought that was pretty universally recognized as sci-fi, if not the spaceship variety of sci-fi...
You are absolutely correct - DR. JEKYLL AND MR. HYDE is science fiction (like FRANKENSTEIN as well) and I should've remembered that. That being acknowledged, I think the science aspect (alchemy?) of J&H takes a backseat to the horror elements in that one. You've got me beat with those radio programs, though - I certainly need a more thorough grounding on Goldsmith's radio work overall.
[Small idea: a rundown of the earliest Goldsmith works in specific genres (western, sci-fi, horror, thriller, etc.). Could be instructive. Maybe?]
Meanwhile I reiterate my compliments on the podcasts, the interviews and the Gold Nuggets. The INVADERS episode had some particularly fine editing work - particularly the background music that reflected the scores being referenced - loved that!
...I certainly need a more thorough grounding on Goldsmith's radio work overall.
JSDouglas, our research suggests that these are the radio programs with actual Goldsmith scores. Some others are mistakenly credited to him, and some he just supervised, picking and timing (live) the tracked in music. Most of these can be found on YouTube, often multiple times in different qualities. It's a simple matter of search and enjoy!
1951-11-21 - Columbia Workshop - "We Gather Together" 1954-02-21 - Hallmark Hall of Fame - Episode 41: "Simon Bolivar" 1954-04-04 - Hallmark Hall of Fame - Episode 47: "Dr. William Mayo" 1954-04-25 - Hallmark Hall of Fame - Episode 50: "Stradivarius" 1954-06-05 - CBS Romance - "Lost Horizon" * 1954-06-19 - CBS Romance - "Lord Sweeney" 1954-07-10 - CBS Romance - "Cordova / Cordoba" ** 1956-02-10 - CBS Radio Workshop - "Storm" 1956-02-17 - CBS Radio Workshop - "A Season of Disbelief" and "Hail and Farewell" 1956-06-22 - CBS Radio Workshop - " 'Another Point Of View' or 'Hamlet Revisited' " 1956-09-05 - Suspense - "The Security Agent" 1956-09-14 - CBS Radio Workshop - "A Pride of Carrots & Venus Well Served" 1956-10-16 - Suspense - "The Prophecy Of Bertha Abbott" 1956-12-08 - CBS Romance - "The Guitar" 1956-12-16 - Suspense - "Eyewitness" 1957-02-10 - CBS Radio Workshop - "1489 Words" 1958-02-02 - Frontier Gentleman - "The Shelton Brothers" 1958-02-09 - Frontier Gentleman - "Charlie Meeker" 1958-02-16 - Frontier Gentleman - "The Honkytonkers"
* "Lost Horizon" dated 1954-02-06 was scored by Ben Ludlow (and seems easier to find) ** Cordov/ba is spelled either way by many people, so search for both
These three remain unconfirmable at present:
1954-06-26 - CBS Romance - "The Kreutzen List" 1955-07-09 - CBS Romance - "Last Summer's Love" 1958-07-20 - Frontier Gentleman - "Mighty Mouse" no credits, one source credits Joel Davis
And these, occasionally attributed to Jerry, don't feature his music:
Escape (the entire series) 1954-12-18 - CBS Romance - "The Bachelor" (Ben Ludlow) 1960-03-27 - Suspense - "Coffin for Mr. Cash" (Tracked) 1960-06-19 - Suspense - "Sixty Grand Missing" (Tracked)
Thank you for that list W.D.L. - this will help me a lot.
For some reason this has reminded me that I also used to listen to the CBS Radio Mystery Theater which used to use the CBS music library for its background music and even its main theme which, if I remember correctly, was sourced from a Nathan Van Cleave scored TWILIGHT ZONE episode called TWO. The original Varese ZONE album releases made me very aware of that show's music and I'm sure more than a few episodes of "Mystery" were tracked with Jerry's music - sorry I can't remember specifics though.
I really enjoyed my fun yet substantial conversation with Brian; his love of Jerry is pure and he really knows his stuff! I think a lot of people here may be very surprised at just how big of a Goldsmith geek (and Star Trek geek) he is... in the most wonderful way possible.
I highly recommend folks give this one a listen, even if in general they don't consider themselves Brian Tyler fans.
I really enjoyed that podcast. It is wonderful to hear stories about Goldsmith from others like Newman and Tyler. Kudos to all of you.
The best word I could use to describe Tyler would be JOYOUS. He seemed so full of joy when talking about Goldsmith, Williams and other composers, and he find so much joy in composing his film scores. He is doing what he has always wanted to do and comes across as loving artistic challenges.
Love his homages or what he also calls “nods” to Goldsmith scores. I was thrilled to hear that he will use several First Blood themes in Rambo: Last Blood. In his new score for the upcoming Rambo movie, I enjoyed his use of Goldsmith’s themes in The Ranch, and I really liked his original theme in Dusk. At the end of your podcast, you played the cut Rambo: Last Blood, and it was rousing. He does a wonderful job of dovetailing his original score with themes from Goldsmith’s scores.
Yavar, you asked excellent questions.
Really good job of editing this podcast. A lot of music was utilized in perfect places.
Thanks for the positive feedback, both of you. Joan, I always look forward to reading your detailed feedback whenever you can fit listening to an episode into your schedule!
Re: the editing -- as with all of my interview episodes, Jens deserves the credit for his continued fine work on those even though he retired as regular host/editor of the main show. I've been keeping him busy lately!
Great interview! Brian Tyler is a real nice guy, having met and talked with him at several functions around town here. When the new version of THE MUMMY was released, he did a Q&A at Creature Features in Burbank and it was really enlightening on his process, especially how he rewrote multiple cues over a weekend to incorporate a new theme for the movie.
I have to say how much I've been enjoying the podcast. I've been listening to the episodes on my phone at work. Since I work in a warehouse packing boxes, listening to the podcast makes the day fly by (and I feel like I'm learning a lot). Keep up the great work!
In that Emilie Bernstein with Elmer and Peter? Pretends to be shocked that P. Bernstein believes Cannon* stiffed him on Bolero. *The company's not mentioned by name, but c'mon.
Yavar, you did a good job in this interview. Peter didn’t seem to remember a lot of things that you asked, which over time is normal, and you chimed right in with the next question. Nice job on smooth transitions when things could have been awkward.
I certainly enjoyed listening to Elmer and Peter’s music, and I learned a lot. I had no idea that Peter had worked so much with his dad and had composed a lot of music in scores like Wild Wild West. Nor did I know he’d orchestrated a lot of Elmer’s scores.
Sounds like it was more of a collaborative effort from both on Rough Riders. I thought Peter composed it all except the G theme. I love that score. I hear a lot of Elmer’s western influences in Peter’s compositions in that score. I was sure that after that score, Peter would become a leading Hollywood composer. I think more producers should have hired him after that score. Yes, he is busy now conducting, but I feel Peter should have been assigned more major movies.
Glad you played A River Runs Through It. I loved that theme when I heard it from the USC concert. That really is my last HOLY grail. Other rejected scores by Elmer have been released. I wish there was some way to get A River Runs Through It released. I’d like to hear Casey’s Shadow too. Who can we petition or write to begging for such releases?
I remember seeing Jerry Goldsmith on TCM, and he was introducing The Magnificent Seven. He called it the greatest western score.
Yavar, congratulations for yet another stunning interview !!
What I like is that you always approach your guest prepared. I mean that your work is professional because you prepare yourself with information and not just make some random chat.
If I may, I think it would be thrilling if you manage to interview Goldsmith's widow, Carol. Surely there's no other person on this planet who could say so many interesting things about Jerry.
Yavar, congratulations for yet another stunning interview !!
What I like is that you always approach your guest prepared. I mean that your work is professional because you prepare yourself with information and not just make some random chat.
If I may, I think it would be thrilling if you manage to interview Goldsmith's widow, Carol. Surely there's no other person on this planet who could say so many interesting things about Jerry.
Of course, I second all of batman&robin's comments. Love his idea about Carol.
Of course, I second all of batman&robin's comments. Love his idea about Carol.
I've been pushing Yavar to try to get a Carol interview for a while now, because at this point what I crave most is just stories about what he was like as a person. Favorite foods, what kind of jokes he liked to tell, who he hung out with the most - that kind of stuff. Heck, I'd even love details about their love life, though I of course know Yavar will never ask about that.
