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 Posted:   Oct 2, 2023 - 8:19 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Now we're getting into the definition of speech. According to the Supreme Court money is speech. roll eyes
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I think speech is the intent to convey a message. It doesn't have to be words. It could even be silence. It could be body language, a written sign, there are many ways to convey a message. (speech)



Burning the American flag is free speech. At one time it was controversial. Now, most people don't give it a second thought. (I would give a second thought before I burned some other type of flag, however. Particularly a flag that represents a protected group.)


I really don't agree with the analogy that burning the flag is free speech. You're burning a piece of fabric. There's laws how, where and when you can burn things. So its no different than your freedom to burn anything else under fire regulations. I mean you can burn a hundred dollar bill and I don't see anyone looking to ban that. People want to ban burning the flag only because it hurts their feelings. That not enough reason to base a ban on.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 2, 2023 - 11:24 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

I really don't agree with the analogy that burning the flag is free speech. You're burning a piece of fabric. There's laws how, where and when you can burn things. So its no different than your freedom to burn anything else under fire regulations. I mean you can burn a hundred dollar bill and I don't see anyone looking to ban that. People want to ban burning the flag only because it hurts their feelings. That not enough reason to base a ban on.


As much as Americans love money, it still doesn't carry the symbolic weight of the flag. There is no need to ban the burning of currency, because technically, it is already illegal to do so. In the United States, burning banknotes is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. §333: "Mutilation of national bank obligations," which includes "any other thing" that renders a note "unfit to be reissued". The penalty is a fine of not more than $100 or imprisonment of not more than six months, or both. Nevertheless, there is no known case of anyone being prosecuted for burning currency. (Perhaps the authorities figure that the self-imposed financial penalty is sufficient.)

Burning the flag is a entirely separate matter. As you note, the various state or Federal statutes that prohibited flag burning did so because the act hurt people's feelings about that symbolic representation of our country. The statutes were all struck down by the Supreme Court because hurting other people's feelings is protected as an act of free speech. You are correct that someone could still be ticketed for a municipal fire code violation for public burning of the flag or currency, as long as they weren't being singled out from people who may have been burning other things.

 
 Posted:   Oct 3, 2023 - 5:40 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

I really don't agree with the analogy that burning the flag is free speech. You're burning a piece of fabric. There's laws how, where and when you can burn things. So its no different than your freedom to burn anything else under fire regulations. I mean you can burn a hundred dollar bill and I don't see anyone looking to ban that. People want to ban burning the flag only because it hurts their feelings. That not enough reason to base a ban on.


As much as Americans love money, it still doesn't carry the symbolic weight of the flag. There is no need to ban the burning of currency, because technically, it is already illegal to do so. In the United States, burning banknotes is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. §333: "Mutilation of national bank obligations," which includes "any other thing" that renders a note "unfit to be reissued". The penalty is a fine of not more than $100 or imprisonment of not more than six months, or both. Nevertheless, there is no known case of anyone being prosecuted for burning currency. (Perhaps the authorities figure that the self-imposed financial penalty is sufficient.)

Burning the flag is a entirely separate matter. As you note, the various state or Federal statutes that prohibited flag burning did so because the act hurt people's feelings about that symbolic representation of our country. The statutes were all struck down by the Supreme Court because hurting other people's feelings is protected as an act of free speech. You are correct that someone could still be ticketed for a municipal fire code violation for public burning of the flag or currency, as long as they weren't being singled out from people who may have been burning other things.


Gawd Damn! I learn something new everyday. I had no idea burning or mutilating US currency was illegal.
Not that its like I have money to burn!

 
 Posted:   Oct 3, 2023 - 7:31 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)



Gawd Damn! I learn something new everyday. I had no idea burning or mutilating US currency was illegal.
Not that its like I have money to burn!


It's not as if major law enforcement agencies do a lot of sting operations to bust all these clans who secretly burn money.

 
 Posted:   Oct 3, 2023 - 7:48 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)



Gawd Damn! I learn something new everyday. I had no idea burning or mutilating US currency was illegal.
Not that its like I have money to burn!


It's not as if major law enforcement agencies do a lot of sting operations to bust all these clans who secretly burn money.


Gotham police would have a conniption if they've seen what the Joker did!

 
 Posted:   Oct 3, 2023 - 9:26 AM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)


It's not as if major law enforcement agencies do a lot of sting operations to bust all these clans who secretly burn money.

...

Gotham police would have a conniption if they've seen what the Joker did!


Laughing my ass off with this one, Sol!

Funny enough, does anyone remember that clip of James Cameron lighting a cigar with a fiery Benjamin? How long is the statute of limitations on bringing this criminal to trial?

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 3, 2023 - 9:56 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

even writing or stamping on the money is illegal, I saw some recently with the leavings of some lunatic that stamped it with

"T----Won"

Morons

 
 Posted:   Oct 3, 2023 - 1:37 PM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

even writing or stamping on the money is illegal


As long as shooting on money is allowed, we're in the green.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 4, 2023 - 7:39 AM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

Freedom isn't Free...
It costs folks like you and me...

https://news.sky.com/story/laurence-fox-arrested-after-video-showing-police-in-his-home-shared-on-social-media-12976589

 
 Posted:   Oct 4, 2023 - 7:50 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

even writing or stamping on the money is illegal


As long as shooting on money is allowed, we're in the green.


Oh no! A contradiction with the Second Amendment!

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 4, 2023 - 8:00 AM   
 By:   Prince Damian   (Member)

even writing or stamping on the money is illegal


Is moping ones brow also illegal, even if it was a very hot day and no towels were at hand?


 
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