...of the Tiomkin Hitchcocks he opted instead to include Strangers on a Train, and it ended up in second-to-last place.
In top place was music that I suspect has never been heard by 90% of those voting for it. It was predictably top because it was Goldsmith. If just the composer's names had been listed, with no scores mentioned, Goldsmith would likely still have come top.
To the likely dismay of those whose knickers continue to be in a twist over Tiomkin/Hitchcock, it seems a real possibility to me that those works may be baked into the Intrada deal. I wouldn't be surprised if the Tiomkin estate was partly subsidizing (or somehow assisting) re-recordings of his scores, much as I believe William Alwyn's estate did with his own film music. But other composers will surely be represented as well, so for heaven's sake Tiomkin-haters, relax.
Personally, I'll be happy for any of those scores from Roger's poll to make it to disc. I'm not going to get sniffy, though, if any of them not at the top of my list happen to appear first.
Yeah, when I checked my email this morning I was ecstatic to see that there were videos available. I wasn't able to watch a single one as they've been pulled.
Here's the full text of Roger's email to backers: "It's in the can! Not only is it done and sounding brilliant, but we had 30 min left over and were able to record an 8 minute suite from Strangers on a Train to include as a bonus. For those who missed the videos, I apologize, the orchestra didn't want any videos posted before the album came out and were concerned about how rehearsal takes reflected on their performance. A fair comment, so there you go. But stay tuned for more details as we progress. And as we line up our next project."
That last bit is pretty tantalizing, as it confirms they intend to move forward with more of these, presumably also Kickstarter-funded...
Personally, I think that recording an 8 minute suite from Strangers on a Train "to include as a bonus" is a decent indicator that Intrada does not plan to tackle that score next, at least. Otherwise, why not save those 8 minutes to release with the rest of the score when it's recorded later. On the other hand, we do have the example of a similar-length suite of music from Conan the Destroyer being included on Tadlow's Conan the Barbarian album, and then a year or so later the complete score being released with that earlier recording being included as part of it, so one never knows...
To the likely dismay of those whose knickers continue to be in a twist over Tiomkin/Hitchcock, it seems a real possibility to me that those works may be baked into the Intrada deal. I wouldn't be surprised if the Tiomkin estate was partly subsidizing (or somehow assisting) re-recordings of his scores, much as I believe William Alwyn's estate did with his own film music.
I think your speculation about the Tiomkin estate might be likely, and Bill Stromberg definitely has the interest to tackle more Hitchcock/Tiomkin, but I think your speculation about Tiomkin being "baked into the Intrada deal" is unlikely, or Roger certainly would have said something along those lines, and probably only offered up Tiomkin scores in that poll he conducted on the Intrada board. What he wrote a year ago doesn't seem to jive with that scenario, at all, so I don't think this is a Tiomkin series... http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7967
"Not that we're going to dive right into another Kickstarter right away (especially since I want to see how the costs actually come out compared to the budget), but thought I would get a preliminary sense of popularity on a few titles. You can vote for up to three. This is just to get an early pulse. Don't be offended if ultimately we don't chose the most popular title, as there are a lot of factors that go into what to record that goes beyond the most popular. I would love to do Jungle Book, but it's big with chorus and could easily cost $20K more than the more straight forward Dial M...making it possibly harder to raise the funds for, even if more popular. Not that that wouldn't stop us from trying necessarily. . Feel free to write in any suggestions in the thread itself, we'll watch and ponder. We aren't considering titles that elements exist or have good enough releases out already (sorry...no Lionheart). In the meantime, we have work to do to get Dial M going."
And yeah, since the expenses are lower (smaller orchestra, no choir) and the option did win the poll, I am of course hoping Goldsmith's two early westerns are tackled next. I would wager that a lot of people voting for it *are* at least somewhat familiar with the scores, as you can see from comments made in that actual thread!
In top place was music that I suspect has never been heard by 90% of those voting for it. It was predictably top because it was Goldsmith. If just the composer's names had been listed, with no scores mentioned, Goldsmith would likely still have come top.
The interesting thing about your theory is that Roger did *not* include the composer names in his poll at all -- it was just the titles, with no composers mentioned! So maybe you shouldn't make assumptions...it looks like some folks have their "knickers in a twist" over Goldsmith winning the poll even though his name wasn't mentioned in it. So I'll reapply the earlier suggestion: relax. Black Patch and Face of a Fugitive are both *superb* scores with a lot of beautiful melody on offer that should appeal to Golden Age fans. Face of a Fugitive in fact I would describe as Jerry's most Golden Age-sounding score, with an unabashed love theme that seems particularly Golden Agey, as we commented about in our podcast, here: http://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/673893-episode-3-face-of-a-fugitive-1959-toccata-1958
And as I absent-mindedly neglected to mention in our podcast conversation, the Main Title material is reminiscent of not only Miklos Rozsa a bit but also Andre Previn (and, as was pointed out to me, Leonard Rosenman's Rebel Without a Cause). Finally, any lover of the Golden Age (I'm lookin' at you guys, Basil and Cody) who doesn't hear the absolute beauty (well-worth being preserved on album) in this main Black Patch theme...well I just don't know what to say:
The recording sessions in Glasgow were a terrific success. Thanks to an incredible team that included some of the best people in this business, Intrada has brought Dimitri Tiomkin’s vivid suspense score from Alfred Hitchcock’s classic Dial M For Murder to life in stunning detail. Our recording sessions with the Royal Scottish National Orchestra this last week captured the entire score, including never-before-heard music cut from the film prior to its 1954 release as well as two different “Intermission Cards”, an alternate main title and a beautiful orchestral arrangement of the main theme written for possible commercial interests back in the day. Everything went so smoothly that we even had time to record an additional 8-minute concert suite from another score to add to the album as an “extra”. The recordings for everything are simply superb, conducted by a master of his craft, William T. Stromberg, engineered by one of the world’s finest scoring mixers, Simon Rhodes, and played with superb musicianship and enthusiasm by the augmented RSNO. Pat Russ was masterful with music preparation and score reconstructions, Paul Talkington continues to amaze us all with his orchestra contracting skills and Anna Stromberg helped keep the massive stack of parts delivered on time and clear up any note errors present from the original 1954 scores. Another huge asset was our recording everything in the new RSNO studio which has audio acoustics that rival the best studios we’ve ever been involved with. And having Olivia Tiomkin, the famed composer's widow, present with us the entire time literally blessed the event. Our whole team is proud of what we just put down on tape and we’re all looking forward to presenting the finished album to everyone for their listening pleasure!
On the other hand, we do have the example of a similar-length suite of music from Conan the Destroyer being included on Tadlow's Conan the Barbarian album, and then a year or so later the complete score being released with that earlier recording being included as part of it,
Which I for one find very annoying. The Barbarian album would have been better without that redundant track -- which in fact was not a suite but just a decent-length cue from the score proper.
I'm going to guess, though, that the suite is the same one as on some Silva release (as it's just under 8 minutes and they wouldn't have had to do extra work to use it), which does bode well for it being a nice bonus instead of the above.
Yavar, there is no doubt about the music that I have just listened to being melodic and beautiful. If Intrada decides to do it, I will contribute just like I did with DIAL M. My preference for their next release is JOAN OF ARC , but I cannot see myself rejecting anything they choose. Unless they lose their"marbles" and go for something atonal. Thankfully I don't think atonal , non- melodic music was part of the era when I became a movie fan. The Tiomkin's, the Steiner's ,the Young's and later the Bernstein's and the Barry's all left a positive mark on what I was hearing.
Here's the full text of Roger's email to backers: "It's in the can! Not only is it done and sounding brilliant, but we had 30 min left over and were able to record an 8 minute suite from Strangers on a Train to include as a bonus. For those who missed the videos, I apologize, the orchestra didn't want any videos posted before the album came out and were concerned about how rehearsal takes reflected on their performance. A fair comment, so there you go. But stay tuned for more details as we progress. And as we line up our next project."
That last bit is pretty tantalizing, as it confirms they intend to move forward with more of these, presumably also Kickstarter-funded...
Personally, I think that recording an 8 minute suite from Strangers on a Train "to include as a bonus" is a decent indicator that Intrada does not plan to tackle that score next, at least. Otherwise, why not save those 8 minutes to release with the rest of the score when it's recorded later. On the other hand, we do have the example of a similar-length suite of music from Conan the Destroyer being included on Tadlow's Conan the Barbarian album, and then a year or so later the complete score being released with that earlier recording being included as part of it, so one never knows...
To the likely dismay of those whose knickers continue to be in a twist over Tiomkin/Hitchcock, it seems a real possibility to me that those works may be baked into the Intrada deal. I wouldn't be surprised if the Tiomkin estate was partly subsidizing (or somehow assisting) re-recordings of his scores, much as I believe William Alwyn's estate did with his own film music.
I think your speculation about the Tiomkin estate might be likely, and Bill Stromberg definitely has the interest to tackle more Hitchcock/Tiomkin, but I think your speculation about Tiomkin being "baked into the Intrada deal" is unlikely, or Roger certainly would have said something along those lines, and probably only offered up Tiomkin scores in that poll he conducted on the Intrada board. What he wrote a year ago doesn't seem to jive with that scenario, at all, so I don't think this is a Tiomkin series... http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7967
"Not that we're going to dive right into another Kickstarter right away (especially since I want to see how the costs actually come out compared to the budget), but thought I would get a preliminary sense of popularity on a few titles. You can vote for up to three. This is just to get an early pulse. Don't be offended if ultimately we don't chose the most popular title, as there are a lot of factors that go into what to record that goes beyond the most popular. I would love to do Jungle Book, but it's big with chorus and could easily cost $20K more than the more straight forward Dial M...making it possibly harder to raise the funds for, even if more popular. Not that that wouldn't stop us from trying necessarily. . Feel free to write in any suggestions in the thread itself, we'll watch and ponder. We aren't considering titles that elements exist or have good enough releases out already (sorry...no Lionheart). In the meantime, we have work to do to get Dial M going."
And yeah, since the expenses are lower (smaller orchestra, no choir) and the option did win the poll, I am of course hoping Goldsmith's two early westerns are tackled next. I would wager that a lot of people voting for it *are* at least somewhat familiar with the scores, as you can see from comments made in that actual thread!
In top place was music that I suspect has never been heard by 90% of those voting for it. It was predictably top because it was Goldsmith. If just the composer's names had been listed, with no scores mentioned, Goldsmith would likely still have come top.
The interesting thing about your theory is that Roger did *not* include the composer names in his poll at all -- it was just the titles, with no composers mentioned! So maybe you shouldn't make assumptions...it looks like some folks have their "knickers in a twist" over Goldsmith winning the poll even though his name wasn't mentioned in it. So I'll reapply the earlier suggestion: relax. Black Patch and Face of a Fugitive are both *superb* scores with a lot of beautiful melody on offer that should appeal to Golden Age fans. Face of a Fugitive in fact I would describe as Jerry's most Golden Age-sounding score, with an unabashed love theme that seems particularly Golden Agey, as we commented about in our podcast, here: http://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/673893-episode-3-face-of-a-fugitive-1959-toccata-1958
And as I absent-mindedly neglected to mention in our podcast conversation, the Main Title material is reminiscent of not only Miklos Rozsa a bit but also Andre Previn (and, as was pointed out to me, Leonard Rosenman's Rebel Without a Cause). Finally, any lover of the Golden Age (I'm lookin' at you guys, Basil and Cody) who doesn't hear the absolute beauty (well-worth being preserved on album) in this main Black Patch theme...well I just don't know what to say:
Yavar
Yavar,
This is not solely directed at you. As I get older, but not necessarily wiser, I've become more sensitive to how people are portrayed. I believe that the picture of Jerry Goldsmith that has been used extensively on the net is in poor taste. Why not use the more iconic Goldsmith picture with pony tale.
We don’t necessarily need a ponytail pic. Just don't distort the picture as this one from YouTube obviously is.....but that's what this particular YouTuber does: his other score videos distort the composer faces.....for whatever reason.
Yavar, This is not solely directed at you. As I get older, but not necessarily wiser, I've become more sensitive to how people are portrayed. I believe that the picture of Jerry Goldsmith that has been used extensively on the net is in poor taste. Why not use the more iconic Goldsmith picture with pony tale.
I'm glad it's not solely directed at me, but frankly it shouldn't be directed at me, at all! I had absolutely nothing to do with the choice of image, here -- you'd have to take it up with FSM user zooba, who's the one who made and posted the video on YouTube. I also think the way he distorts composers' images is weird, but I'm grateful to him for championing the music itself, which is the most important thing and which is why I shared his video here -- he's the only person to have this substantial a selection of the main Black Patch theme, online.
And yeah, since the expenses are lower (smaller orchestra, no choir) and the option did win the poll, I am of course hoping Goldsmith's two early westerns are tackled next. I would wager that a lot of people voting for it *are* at least somewhat familiar with the scores, as you can see from comments made in that actual thread!
Yavar
If Intrada does decide to record Black Patch and Face of a Fugitive, I hope they will also consider a second disc of "suites and themes" for the rest of Goldsmith's western output, along the lines of what Tadlow did for The Blue Max (although that one was a bit more diverse rather than being dedicated solely to music from war movies).
That would be awesome. They could even include some highlight cues from some of Goldsmith's unreleased western TV scores... maybe even a 5 minute suite from his final radio work, for The Frontier Gentleman.
Poor choice for a first recording- the orchestra chosen is not the best as evidenced by the "Spellbound" recording.
I haven't played the Varese re-recording of North by Northwest recently (McNeely), but if I recall correctly, the performance of the Slovak orchestra was of very high standard.
If Intrada does decide to record Black Patch and Face of a Fugitive, I hope they will also consider a second disc of "suites and themes" for the rest of Goldsmith's western output, along the lines of what Tadlow did for The Blue Max (although that one was a bit more diverse rather than being dedicated solely to music from war movies). __________________________________
That would be awesome. They could even include some highlight cues from some of Goldsmith's unreleased western TV scores... maybe even a 5 minute suite from his final radio work, for The Frontier Gentleman.
Those are brilliant suggestions. Paired with a second disc like that, making it two discs of 'new' and varied Goldsmith western music, could push a release like that from Solid Seller to Quick Sellout, and make it a likely contender on Release Of The Year lists.
If they do follow my suggestion for a 2nd CD of western themes, they could get Doug or Roger to do the whistling for Bandolero!
Are they great whistlers? If so that would be neat. I think a couple cues from Bandolero would be nice to include, but here is what I would prioritize:
100 Rifles (15-20 minutes) -- I think there is a strong argument to be made for this as Jerry's greatest western score (even though IMO that is Lonely Are the Brave), but unfortunately even after the latest LLL remastering, I find the sound quality somewhat disappointing. I think a substantial suite from the score would be a strong selling point, as it's pretty widely beloved. Imagine hearing that powerful brass sound in a modern recording!
Breakheart Pass (~12 minutes of highlights) -- This score in my opinion is not awesome 100% of the time (as I would argue 100 Rifles is). There is a decent amount of suspense underscore which is functional but not thrilling on album, in my opinion. But the highlights (mostly based around the fantastic main theme) are stellar, and sadly the mono sound quality available from the score leaves quite a bit to be desired. I think a suite of four cues or so would be an amazing inclusion and win over a lot of people to the score in a similar way James Fitzpatrick did when he included a few cues from Inchon on the second disc of his Tadlow The Blue Max.
I think new recordings of a couple overlooked and commercially unreleased Goldsmith TV western themes would make fantastic closers for each disc:
Disc 1 could comfortably fit Black Patch (1957) -- 33-34 minutes Frontier Gentleman (1958) -- 5-8 minutes Face of a Fugitive (1959) -- 32 minutes Black Saddle (1959) -- 1 minute
Though the latter theme surprisingly received at *least* a half dozen cover versions in the half decade since Jerry Goldsmith wrote it, those were all extended album arrangements by various individuals not named Jerry Goldsmith. His original version has never been released on album, and never been faithfully recorded.
I think that Disc 2 shouldn't spend much precious disc space on any of Jerry's post-1975 western output*... Bad Girls and the western cues from Looney Tunes: Back in Action might be fun to include in a comprehensive program but we already have the original recordings in fantastic sound. But I think 1.5 minutes could *absolutely* be spared at the end of the disc to include a new orchestral recording of Jerry's superb theme for Hollister (1991), aka Brotherhood of the Gun. I think BSX might have released a cover version made with samples, but I'm talking about a new recording with full orchestra. Would be a neat closer on the second disc, don't you think?
Yavar
*exception I just thought of: if someone like Leigh Phillips had interest in doing new concert arrangements of Jerry's three western themes for Joe Dante (from Innerspace, The 'Burbs, and Looney Tunes), well THAT is something that would excite me to no end!
I had absolutely nothing to do with the choice of image, here -- you'd have to take it up with FSM user zooba, who's the one who made and posted the video on YouTube. I also think the way he distorts composers' images is weird, but I'm grateful to him for championing the music itself, which is the most important thing and which is why I shared his video here -- he's the only person to have this substantial a selection of the main Black Patch theme, online.
