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Since The Artist Who Did Not Want to Paint was a documentary short film, with no sound effects or story dialogue to contend with, I think Jerry was able to write it largely as a concert piece. Yes he had to follow the images still, but he was afforded the opportunity to write a 12+ minute piece with continual flow and development. I really wish it were performed regularly in concert halls, as it completely deserves it.
Yavar
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Since The Artist Who Did Not Want to Paint was a documentary short film, with no sound effects or story dialogue to contend with, I think Jerry was able to write it largely as a concert piece. Yes he had to follow the images still, but he was afforded the opportunity to write a 12+ minute piece with continual flow and development. I really wish it were performed regularly in concert halls, as it completely deserves it.
Yavar
I so love his use of the Horns in that piece. Even that is worth the price of the rerecording imo (though I adore RC).
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Thanks -- I'm glad you enjoyed this one! We actually recorded our third Twilight Zone podcast about a month ago; it only awaits editing. Can't wait for you to hear it, too -- I think it's safe for me to announce at this point that we had a special guest join us there, the wonderful film music journalist Tim Grieving (who wrote the liner notes for Intrada's The Trouble With Angels, and recently moderated a panel at Rudy in Concert in LA) -- https://timgreiving.com/
Yavar
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Thanks -- I'm glad you enjoyed this one! We actually recorded our third Twilight Zone podcast about a month ago; it only awaits editing. Can't wait for you to hear it, too -- I think it's safe for me to announce at this point that we had a special guest join us there, the wonderful film music journalist Tim Grieving (who wrote the liner notes for Intrada's The Trouble With Angels, and recently moderated a panel at Rudy in Concert in LA) -- https://timgreiving.com/
Yavar
I'm already enthusiastic about it. I'm sure I'm going to like it.
Those Sixties shows done by Goldsmith were fabulous, especially the CBS ones.
I'm also impatient to discover your take on the Rawhide episode: "Incident in the Middle of Nowhere".
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Dear Yavar,
I'm very much enjoying your Odyssey Interviews.
Hearing idols of mine (like David Newman, or Cliff Eidelman, or Leonard Slatkin) speaking with fondness about my top idol Jerry Goldsmith is priceless.
Congratulations for the high level you have achieved and thanks a lot for your great job!
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Hey thanks spanosdm! Just to warn you — I would hold off on downloading the Jane Eyre podcast. I didn’t have a chance to proof Jeff’s final draft on that, and when listening this morning I noticed there’s a huge gap of silence where there is supposed to be content from 8:35-10:07. I emailed Jeff and I’m hopeful it’ll be an easy fix today to replace it...
Yavar
P.S. thanks for your eagle eyes on sharing this, (member), and thanks for the compliments on my interview episodes, batman&robin!
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Everyone, the Jane Eyre episode is now fixed! Hope you enjoy it -- just don't expect quite the level of thoroughness as the average Goldsmith Odyssey episode has. That's not Jeff's thing. As it was, I already really had to push him to get this episode over an hour (half again as long as his previous longest episode, on Story of a Woman, for which he also had a guest host), which would be a short episode for the Odyssey.
And speaking of the Odyssey, Twilight Zone podcast #3 (on "Dust", with guest host Tim Grieving) will be dropping within 24 hours. 
Yavar
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Posted: |
May 29, 2019 - 8:34 PM
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By: |
Jens
(Member)
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Episode 19 - The Twilight Zone - Dust
http://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/1210706-episode-19-the-twilight-zone-dust-1961
Who's this new guest on the Goldsmith Odyssey, summoning up thoughtful commentary on the brilliance of Jerry Goldsmith? There are some who call him… Tim (Greiving, a film music journalist who has written pieces for NPR, Variety, the New York Times, and many other publications). After telling your humble hosts David, Yavar, and Clark about his career and his relationship to Jerry's music, Tim joins us on a journey out west for an examination of the Twilight Zone episode “Dust.” We dissect the atypical dramatic approach Goldsmith takes with his spare, downbeat music, and also engage in a bit of debate on the degree to which magic plays a role in this mostly-realistic episode. Check it out, and be sure to join us next time for a return appearance from our esteemed guest.
Duration
01:35:28
Cues from "Dust":
0:00:02 - 06. March to the Gallows
0:27:51 - 01. Fate
0:36:17 - 02. The Funeral
0:43:47 - 03. The Rock
0:47:18 - 04. The Magic Dust
0:49:57 - 05. Forecast
0:51:41 - 06. March to the Gallows
0:55:38 - 07. Last Hope
1:00:06 - 08. Broken Rope
1:03:29 - 09. The Hanging
1:33:07 - 07. Last Hope
Other Sources:
0:01:40 - Air Force One - “No Security”
0:02:35 - The Omen: The Essential Jerry Goldsmith - “Bajo Fuego” from Under Fire
0:03:09 - Hoosiers - “Welcome to Hickory”
0:04:28 - Maxie - “She Won’t Be Back”
0:09:37 - The Trouble with Angels - “The Trouble with Angels”
0:09:55 - The Trouble with Angels - “Lifeguard”
0:10:30 - I.Q. - “Fundamental Order / First Sight / Chance / Craps”
0:30:11 - Marc Scott Zicree interview with director Douglas Heyes from 1978 - Twilight Zone Season 2 Disc 2
0:33:58 - Gunsmoke - "The Wake" - “The Gravedigger”
0:54:36 - Raiders of the Lost Ark - “The Map Room: Dawn”
1:02:27 - Playhouse 90 - “Tomorrow” - “The Woman”
1:06:41 - Nervous Man in a Four Dollar Room - "A New Man"
1:32:05 - 1489 Words - "Silence"
The Goldsmith Odyssey: All Episodes
http://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com
Contact The Goldsmith Odyssey
mail@goldsmithodyssey.com
* * *
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Posted: |
May 30, 2019 - 12:07 AM
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By: |
Rollin Hand
(Member)
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Episode 19 - The Twilight Zone - Dust
http://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/1210706-episode-19-the-twilight-zone-dust-1961
Who's this new guest on the Goldsmith Odyssey, summoning up thoughtful commentary on the brilliance of Jerry Goldsmith? There are some who call him… Tim (Greiving, a film music journalist who has written pieces for NPR, Variety, the New York Times, and many other publications). After telling your humble hosts David, Yavar, and Clark about his career and his relationship to Jerry's music, Tim joins us on a journey out west for an examination of the Twilight Zone episode “Dust.” We dissect the atypical dramatic approach Goldsmith takes with his spare, downbeat music, and also engage in a bit of debate on the degree to which magic plays a role in this mostly-realistic episode. Check it out, and be sure to join us next time for a return appearance from our esteemed guest.
Duration
01:35:28
Currently listening to the show. More later …
THE TZ TALKS START AT 00:19:38
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Posted: |
May 30, 2019 - 3:26 AM
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By: |
Rollin Hand
(Member)
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Episode 19 - The Twilight Zone - Dust
http://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/1210706-episode-19-the-twilight-zone-dust-1961
Who's this new guest on the Goldsmith Odyssey, summoning up thoughtful commentary on the brilliance of Jerry Goldsmith? There are some who call him… Tim (Greiving, a film music journalist who has written pieces for NPR, Variety, the New York Times, and many other publications). After telling your humble hosts David, Yavar, and Clark about his career and his relationship to Jerry's music, Tim joins us on a journey out west for an examination of the Twilight Zone episode “Dust.” We dissect the atypical dramatic approach Goldsmith takes with his spare, downbeat music, and also engage in a bit of debate on the degree to which magic plays a role in this mostly-realistic episode. Check it out, and be sure to join us next time for a return appearance from our esteemed guest.
Duration
01:35:28
Currently listening to the show. More later …
THE TZ TALKS START AT 00:19:38
I finally finished it off. It's a good show on the whole but the episode itself deserves a small 2 and the score deserves a minor 5 but not much because it is too generic and atmospheric. Without Jerry Goldsmith’s input, I just couldn’t watch it because it is so anecdotal and flat. I hope it's "Back There" next!
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I hope it's "Back There" next!
It is indeed.
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I finally finished it off. It's a good show on the whole but the episode itself deserves a small 2 and the score deserves a minor 5 but not much because it is too generic and atmospheric. Without Jerry Goldsmith’s input, I just couldn’t watch it because it is so anecdotal and flat. I hope it's "Back There" next!
I'm sure there are many people out there who feel as you do, but I just don't get it. "Back There" I found to be a (SPOILERS FOR THE NEXT PODCAST) disappointing episode and incredibly generic score with literally a single good idea in it that stood out.
In contrast, "Dust" was certainly a downer, both episode and score...maybe the most downbeat thing I've ever heard from Goldsmith...it makes the bulk of Hour of the Gun (leaving out the album pop arrangement of the theme here; I'm talking about the film score) seem positively sunny! There's nothing catchy or particularly accessible/engaging about the score, yet I think it's something of an unappreciated masterpiece, because it is so very unique and perfect for the episode and effective in context, which I found subtly powerful in how understated and downbeat it was. Both film and score really got under my skin and grew in my estimation the more I thought (and talked) about them, even though my initial impressions were less than enthusiastic. But going forward I know I'll pick "Dust" -- film or score -- over "Back There" almost any day.
I get "atmospheric" (though not how that's a bad thing, in this case), but what on earth did you find "generic" about "Dust"? What other stuff does it sound like and could be mistaken for? Personally I think it's very telling that music from it was not tracked into any other Twilight Zone scores (unlike, say, the comparatively more generic "Back There" or "Doc Judge" from Gunsmoke, both of which you like I think). IMO it couldn't be just tracked into anything else precisely because it was NOT generic, but very specifically tuned to this particular unique story/film.
Yavar
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Posted: |
May 30, 2019 - 12:00 PM
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By: |
Rollin Hand
(Member)
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I finally finished it off. It's a good show on the whole but the episode itself deserves a small 2 and the score deserves a minor 5 but not much because it is too generic and atmospheric. Without Jerry Goldsmith’s input, I just couldn’t watch it because it is so anecdotal and flat. I hope it's "Back There" next!
I'm sure there are many people out there who feel as you do, but I just don't get it. "Back There" I found to be a (SPOILERS FOR THE NEXT PODCAST) disappointing episode and incredibly generic score with literally a single good idea in it that stood out.
In contrast, "Dust" was certainly a downer, both episode and score...maybe the most downbeat thing I've ever heard from Goldsmith...it makes the bulk of Hour of the Gun (leaving out the album pop arrangement of the theme here; I'm talking about the film score) seem positively sunny! There's nothing catchy or particularly accessible/engaging about the score, yet I think it's something of an unappreciated masterpiece, because it is so very unique and perfect for the episode and effective in context, which I found subtly powerful in how understated and downbeat it was. Both film and score really got under my skin and grew in my estimation the more I thought (and talked) about them, even though my initial impressions were less than enthusiastic. But going forward I know I'll pick "Dust" -- film or score -- over "Back There" almost any day.
I get "atmospheric" (though not how that's a bad thing, in this case), but what on earth did you find "generic" about "Dust"? What other stuff does it sound like and could be mistaken for? Personally I think it's very telling that music from it was not tracked into any other Twilight Zone scores (unlike, say, the comparatively more generic "Back There" or "Doc Judge" from Gunsmoke, both of which you like I think). IMO it couldn't be just tracked into anything else precisely because it was NOT generic, but very specifically tuned to this particular unique story/film.
Yavar
First of all, the appreciation of a score is a very individualistic matter: it's up to your criteria,
taste for music and instruments and, above all, the cultural association.
Second, "Dust" as a score is not engaging, rather lazy and the instruments' use is not sophisticated enough unlike the dominant harpsichord combined with the tense and vibrant strings in "Back There".
"Back There" has that Noirish, solemn and intense tropism as a funeral march that you find in Goldsmith's New Vienna School-oriented scores that I worship: see “Freud", "Seconds", to name but a few. "Back There" is similar to some Thriller scores.
I have a strong bias for "Back There" as well as "The Invaders": both are classical music-oriented.
Keep in mind that the meaning of "atmospheric" differs: it's either synonymous for a great experience or just functional/background material.
What's your favorite side of Jerry Goldsmith's music or which type of score do you associate Goldsmith first?
I was acquainted by Goldsmith's music with his avant garde side through Planet of the Apes which was my single favorite score and still is.
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First of all, the appreciation of a score is a very individualistic matter: it's up to your criteria,
taste for music and instruments and, above all, the cultural association.
Of course that's true. I didn't really take issue with you disliking "Dust"; I mainly take issue with you calling it "generic" which I feel *really* isn't true. It's so un-generic I can't even think of another score out there (by Goldsmith or anyone else) which is really very similar to it.
Second, "Dust" as a score is not engaging, rather lazy and the instruments' use is not sophisticated enough unlike the dominant harpsichord combined with the tense and vibrant strings in "Back There".
And again I don't have an issue with you saying "Dust" isn't engaging to you (it took quite a while to engage ME!) as that is obviously a subjective judgement. But calling it "rather lazy" I think is a bit insulting to Goldsmith, unless you're saying that it conveys a lazy mood. But the composition, while economical and probably not requiring a long time to write, I don't think is fair to call lazy work in the slightest. I think it was very carefully and specifically crafted to perfectly support the episode. Not everything *should* be "sophisticated" and I don't think such an approach would have aided this episode as well.
"Back There" has that Noirish, solemn and intense tropism as a funeral march that you find in Goldsmith's New Vienna School-oriented scores that I worship: see “Freud", "Seconds", to name but a few. "Back There" is similar to some Thriller scores.
*Very* similar to Jerry's general Thriller sound in my view, though less intricate and developed than they tend to be IMO. And I think it's an argument for it being described as "generic" itself. You could drop a cue from "Back There" into a random Goldsmith Thriller episode and it wouldn't stand out to anyone as being from something else. Not so with "Dust". Take any cue from that and drop it into any other Goldsmith score, even any other western score of his specifically, and I think it would stand out and being from something else.
I have a strong bias for "Back There" as well as "The Invaders": both are classical music-oriented.
Keep in mind that the meaning of "atmospheric" differs: it's either synonymous for a great experience or just functional/background material.
I guess, to me, "The Invaders" stands alone as music much stronger in a "classical music" way than "Back There" does...but again this is a more subjective area of this conversation.
What's your favorite side of Jerry Goldsmith's music or which type of score do you associate Goldsmith first? I was acquainted by Goldsmith's music with his avant garde side through Planet of the Apes which was my single favorite score and still is.
My introduction to Goldsmith was Star Trek, about as far from the sound world of "Dust" as one could get...but since then I've grown to love literally almost all aspects of his output. Picking a favorite side is nearly impossible for me at this point. I think Goldsmith's greatest score in my estimation is QBVII, which shows *all* sides of his output, from modernist/avant garde for some of the Holocaust sequences, to stuff that sounds right at home in The Wind and the Lion, for example. My two favorite feature scores among his 60s output are probably Lonely Are the Brave and Seconds, which are extremely different from each other. (I feel similarly about the films, both of which I adore.) Jerry's extreme stylistic variety and versatility is one of the reasons he is my favorite composer.
Yavar
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Posted: |
May 30, 2019 - 1:43 PM
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By: |
Rollin Hand
(Member)
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First of all, the appreciation of a score is a very individualistic matter: it's up to your criteria,
taste for music and instruments and, above all, the cultural association.
Of course that's true. I didn't really take issue with you disliking "Dust"; I mainly take issue with you calling it "generic" which I feel *really* isn't true. It's so un-generic I can't even think of another score out there (by Goldsmith or anyone else) which is really very similar to it.
Second, "Dust" as a score is not engaging, rather lazy and the instruments' use is not sophisticated enough unlike the dominant harpsichord combined with the tense and vibrant strings in "Back There".
And again I don't have an issue with you saying "Dust" isn't engaging to you (it took quite a while to engage ME!) as that is obviously a subjective judgement. But calling it "rather lazy" I think is a bit insulting to Goldsmith, unless you're saying that it conveys a lazy mood. But the composition, while economical and probably not requiring a long time to write, I don't think is fair to call lazy work in the slightest. I think it was very carefully and specifically crafted to perfectly support the episode. Not everything *should* be "sophisticated" and I don't think such an approach would have aided this episode as well.
"Back There" has that Noirish, solemn and intense tropism as a funeral march that you find in Goldsmith's New Vienna School-oriented scores that I worship: see “Freud", "Seconds", to name but a few. "Back There" is similar to some Thriller scores.
*Very* similar to Jerry's general Thriller sound in my view, though less intricate and developed than they tend to be IMO. And I think it's an argument for it being described as "generic" itself. You could drop a cue from "Back There" into a random Goldsmith Thriller episode and it wouldn't stand out to anyone as being from something else. Not so with "Dust". Take any cue from that and drop it into any other Goldsmith score, even any other western score of his specifically, and I think it would stand out and being from something else.
I have a strong bias for "Back There" as well as "The Invaders": both are classical music-oriented.
Keep in mind that the meaning of "atmospheric" differs: it's either synonymous for a great experience or just functional/background material.
I guess, to me, "The Invaders" stands alone as music much stronger in a "classical music" way than "Back There" does...but again this is a more subjective area of this conversation.
What's your favorite side of Jerry Goldsmith's music or which type of score do you associate Goldsmith first? I was acquainted by Goldsmith's music with his avant garde side through Planet of the Apes which was my single favorite score and still is.
My introduction to Goldsmith was Star Trek, about as far from the sound world of "Dust" as one could get...but since then I've grown to love literally almost all aspects of his output. Picking a favorite side is nearly impossible for me at this point. I think Goldsmith's greatest score in my estimation is QBVII, which shows *all* sides of his output, from modernist/avant garde for some of the Holocaust sequences, to stuff that sounds right at home in The Wind and the Lion, for example. My two favorite feature scores among his 60s output are probably Lonely Are the Brave and Seconds, which are extremely different from each other. (I feel similarly about the films, both of which I adore.) Jerry's extreme stylistic variety and versatility is one of the reasons he is my favorite composer.
Yavar
I see you're a late seventies and a full eighties Goldsmith's aficionado.
I was rather a sixties first because of Planet of the Apes and, later, I bumped into his seventies output.
I ceased to be interested in at the start of the eighties but it's a question of a generation.
His western scores were not my first focus that's the reason why I am less enthusiastic about his "Dust" effort.
By lazy, I mean, lazy atmosphere. "Dust" as a score works for the episode and I find it okay but not exciting.
I was first hooked up by his take on the New Vienna School/avant garde/modernism, his intimistic leaning and then his espionage and war sound and, later on, his seventies funk style and his western approach. I always admired his peculiar use of strings and brass.
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