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 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 7:52 AM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

This shIt storm has kicked off in the UK...

https://news.sky.com/story/what-did-laurence-fox-say-about-ava-evans-on-gb-news-unacceptable-comments-in-full-and-reaction-to-his-suspension-12970858

And it begs the question, should people be allowed to say what they want, without recourse?
This Fox fella seems like a right beaut*
Just a quick read-up of him says it all.
The funny thing about this story, is that HE is bad mouthing the lady, in regards to attractiveness, when to my eyes, she looks quite nice, while he...well...even gay blokes wouldn't wanna sh@g him, I imagine.
Thoughts?



*Beaut is scouse for: An idiot. "You're a fuckin' beaut, now do one."

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 7:57 AM   
 By:   Prince Damian   (Member)

You should be able to say what you like but be ready/ accepting being called a knob( or whatever) by others. Bearing in mind that they could be the knob.

 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 8:40 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

You should be able to say what you like but be ready/ accepting being called a knob( or whatever) by others. Bearing in mind that they could be the knob.


Generally agree with this unless your free speech is unlawful. You can’t yell “FIRE!“ in a crowded theater, harass someone or defame someone with untruths. Well the last is more a civil case.
Other than that people need to grow a pair.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 8:55 AM   
 By:   Prince Damian   (Member)

True.
Also it would be different thing ripping into someone face to face, making them feel small, scared etc. On tv I think it's more.fair game. After all they are there we'll aware there is going to be disagreement.

 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 8:56 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Free speech is important, but it should never be confused with some sort of God-given right.
That's not the way the laws of nature work and we live in the natural world.

I think of it this way:
Say what you like, but don't be a dick about it.
If you ARE a dick about it, then don't whine about the blowback.
There is a respectful way to say almost anything.
You just have to be intelligent enough to find the right words.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 8:59 AM   
 By:   Prince Damian   (Member)


There is a respectful way to say almost anything.
You just have to be intelligent enough to find the right words.


Also true. I got away with murder in work, over the years, because I knew how and what to say.

 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 9:39 AM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

Depending on your country of citizenship and their constitution(s), freedom of speech should be upheld so that the acting government (local, state, federal) cannot retaliate against you for speaking your mind. Of course there are also laws against your own ill-will when it comes to how far you can take your own freedom of speech but that is what justice systems are built for. Citizens really have to police themselves with this concept, as another citizen speaking an opinion or thought that is considered arrogant/untruthful/etc. has no real bearing on one's will or existence other than to be a temporary (or perhaps long term) nuisance.

"Unlimited" is too specific yet to vague of a term when it comes to our own freedom of speech or what retaliation could occur because of it. Some people utilize freedom of speech to harm and harass others, there shouldn't be any "limit" or anything on this. It should be dealt with. Some people utilize freedom of speech to conspire for unlawful or immoral activity, and there shouldn't be a "limit" on this. It should be dealt with.

Unfortunately we humans are complex beings with minds inspired by peer pressure and/or support, religious beliefs, entitlements, and so many other factors which influence our speech and beliefs. Yahweh or whatever celestial lawgiver had given to Moses on those tablets of stone 10 essential words to live by, yet failed to really comprehend what law to follow when it comes to your own vocalization. It's a real existential pickle.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 9:44 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Free speech is important, but it should never be confused with some sort of God-given right.

Does that mean atheists have no rights? Would that also make them anarchists since they would be exempt from laws? wink

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 9:45 AM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

"On tv I think it's more.fair game"
-----------------
I don't quite get this incident though.
I don't know why Fox dragged the girl into the debate (she wasn't there to defend herself and Fox made it all about sex and appearances).
And he started speaking for ALL men when he declared that no one would want to 'sh@g her' (his words).
And again, whether you think she is attractive or not...Pot...Kettle...

 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 9:52 AM   
 By:   Bill Carson, Earl of Poncey   (Member)

If there is limitations on slagging people off, Kev, you could be in trouble lol

Btw Martin says he knows you don't like him as you rip into him every chance you get on here. Not his fault you didn't see the genius of Goodfellas n Casino. wink

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 10:02 AM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

Hey, I love Marty. Well, old goodfella Marty, not the moany old git who's bleating about Superhero films every 5 minutes.
Was Casino the sequel or remake of Goodfellas? wink

Okay, I read a bit more into this Lawrence Fox spat and he was responding to this woman who had made some disparaging remarks about male suicides.
All a bit storm in a teacup I suppose, but I still think Fox was wrong to make it about looks and sex appeal, considering his mug shot.
It's school bully tactics to start in with the low blows.

 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 11:12 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Free speech is important, but it should never be confused with some sort of God-given right.
That's not the way the laws of nature work and we live in the natural world.

I think of it this way:
Say what you like, but don't be a dick about it.
If you ARE a dick about it, then don't whine about the blowback.
There is a respectful way to say almost anything.
You just have to be intelligent enough to find the right words.


I'm confused. So "Zimmer Sucks" isn't the right words?







I kid! I kid!

 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 1:50 PM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

Freedom of speech is perhaps the most important of all rights, because without freedom of speech, there is no freedom of thought, no way to communicate truthfully, precisely and accurately. And the only people who usually fear it are those who are afraid of the truth.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 2:09 PM   
 By:   jenkwombat   (Member)

Freedom of speech is perhaps the most important of all rights, because without freedom of speech, there is no freedom of thought, no way to communicate truthfully, precisely and accurately. And the only people who usually fear it are those who are afraid of the truth.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Yet, an alarming number of people, particularly younger people, want government restrictions on speech that some might find "offensive" or "hurtful". Those are terms that can be pretty loosely/broadly defined, unfortunately.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 2:10 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Free speech is important, but it should never be confused with some sort of God-given right.


That's exactly what the framers of the U.S. Declaration of Independence and Constitution felt about free speech--that it was a God-given right that no government created by men had the right to infringe upon.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

One of the cornerstones of "Liberty" is the right of free speech, which is why the drafters of the Constitution included free speech in the first of that document's "Bill of Rights": "Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech..."

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 2:57 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

So defamation or conspiring to commit a crime, which require speech, are not prosecutable?

 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 3:10 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

While many of the Founding Fathers of America were Protestants and perhaps we shouldn't hold that against them, nowhere in the original "God-given" texts of Abrahamic faiths is there anything about the right to free speech. Did the Founding Fathers attempt to speak on behalf of the Abrahamic God? John Locke, Thomas Paine, and Ben Franklin have written of thought-provoking philosophy on the notion. Perhaps we have "God-given theories" instead of those "God-given rights."

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 3:25 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Speaking of Constitutional interpretations, ever watch those "sovereign citizen" police interaction videos on youtube? Makes non-binary pronouns look like a piece of cake.

 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 3:27 PM   
 By:   Thomas   (Member)

We have a new piece of legislation in Ireland that should be approved soon, in line with other EU countries. Some people have concerns that it may infringe on "free speech", and even that Musk guy and some Trump type expressed their disapproval for reasons unknown...

https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2023/0705/1392965-five-things-to-understand-about-the-new-hate-speech-bill/

 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2023 - 3:51 PM   
 By:   ibelin   (Member)

'The limits of my language are the limits of my world.' Ludwig Wittgenstein pointed out that language limits thought itself, so in only a perfect world would there be no limitations. In an ideal world the limitations would be kept to a minimum. Unfortunately both are only pipe dreams. George Orwell wrote in his book '1984' about how language is a powerful tool that can be used to manipulate the masses, and the elites have caught on. I believe that all languages (including constructed languages, such as Esperanto and Lojban) and all words, arranged in any order whatever, no matter how offensive, should be allowed. As for threats of violence and the like, I'll say this: Those who are actually serious about acting on their threats would never make threats in the first place. smile

 
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