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 Posted:   Jan 14, 2016 - 2:35 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

There are fans of complete original film tracks, and fans who want the "best" representation of the music content (regardless of how that new orchestration differs from the film version). As one of the former types, I am also weary of people who claim a soundtrack is released when it's actually an abridgement and/or re-recording. I dont find my preference as asking for something "tailored" to my "TASTE," but the default of soundtrack collecting.

I have no problem with you having a different preference than I, so if you had written "...which still needs to be released in its ORIGINAL AND COMPLETE FORMAT", all would be fine and dandy. The thing I have an issue with -- not just with your post and in this particular case, but in general -- is the automatic dismissal of the original soundtrack, in fact the dismissal of its very EXISTENCE. That's rather bizarre to me. I dislike expansions, and don't really respect a soundtrack album untill it has been rearranged for listening, but I still wouldn't ignore the fact that a soundtrack has been issued, whatever its format or presentation.

Anyways, just a new "pet peeve" of mine; within our soundtrack discourse.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 14, 2016 - 3:21 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

The thing I have an issue with -- not just with your post and in this particular case, but in general -- is the automatic dismissal of the original soundtrack, in fact the dismissal of its very EXISTENCE. That's rather bizarre to me. I dislike expansions, and don't really respect a soundtrack album untill it has been rearranged for listening, but I still wouldn't ignore the fact that a soundtrack has been issued, whatever its format or presentation.

I assumed everyone interested in the music knew about the earlier LP-CD releases, although probably not everyone knows it's a re-recording and incomplete. Nevertheless I thought by implication that informed readers would know I meant the film tracks that were unreleased, but I can see how it came across that I was either ignorant of or dismissing the earlier release. I have no problem with the recording and am glad to have it, but I dont think that it should be the last word if the complete original is available.
Hopefully since Intrada is involved with Universal, they'll do one of those Film/Rerecording 2-disc combos.
Since we both like the music and movie, I dont know why we're arguing. wink

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 14, 2016 - 3:27 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Yeah, it's this 'inferral' which has become all the rage -- a peculiar phenomenon that has gradually grown in the last 15 years or so. Post any given thread on "what score you want to see released?", and you'll get any number of people listing scores that already have a release, without any specification other than the film's title and the composer. They're obviously talking about expanded versions, but we have to INFER that because it has become such a pervasive norm these days. I find that unfortunate, because essential discussion surrounding the original soundtrack (and, in fact, the music itself) is being lost in the mix.

Anyways, I'll stop ranting now. Yes, we both dig this score and I have no problem with either a re-issue or an expanded release down the road, even if I am content with what I've got.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 14, 2016 - 3:34 PM   
 By:   Smitty   (Member)

Yeah, it's this 'inferral' which has become all the rage -- a peculiar phenomenon that has only appeared in the last 15 years or so. Post any given thread on "what score you want to see released?", and you'll get any number of people listing scores that already have a release, without any specification other than the film's title and the composer. They're obviously talking about expanded versions, but we have to INFER that because it has become such a pervasive norm these days. I find that unfortunate, because essential discussion surrounding the original soundtrack (and, in fact, the music itself) is being lost in the mix.

Anyways, I'll stop ranting now. Yes, we both dig this score and I have no problem with either a re-issue or an expanded release down the road, even if I am content with what I've got.


I feel the same way in general. However, pedantic bickering is also annoying, as are people who say "anyways."

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 14, 2016 - 3:49 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

After seeing JAWS in the theater several times as a young teen, I bought the LP and played it a million times. I didnt know it was a re-recording, and there was no home video, so you would need a good memory to notice the difference. On a certain level, that's a compliment to Williams' re-invention, but it also relies on your own faulty memory to collaborate. Years later when I found out it was different, I did not appreciate that fact because the re-recording had effectively colonized my mind as THE score.
Anyways, it's easy to become accustomed to rerecordings (unless you know the original music by heart). But that doesnt mean the "real thing" shouldnt be made available.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 15, 2016 - 12:25 AM   
 By:   Christian Reiffenrath   (Member)

Just want to mention that the blu ray of it looks and sounds really good, much better than the dvd. I first bought it in the early 90's on vhs (glorious 4:3 full frame and cut by 5 minutes) after i got the varese cd and it has never left the top 10 of my favourite movies ever since. Guilty Pleasure!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 15, 2016 - 5:59 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

I'm bemused by the resurrection of a film best long forgotten ... at least, IMHO.

.....

Mitch


Allow me to attempt further bemusement smile. I adored both film and score from the moment it flickered onto the screen on first release, and saw it two or three times at the cinema after that. I even took my dad's Dictaphone to record the opening theme on one of the repeat showings.

I liked the character of Hemlock, and although I can't recall if I read the book first or afterwards, it threw more light onto him, which enhanced it. Trevanian wrote a second Hemlock book, The Loo Sanction, and I waited in vain for Clint to make another appearance - perhaps the title was enough to discourage a repeat.

This was one of the scores that cemented my liking for Williams, with that perfect main theme and I also loved the icy mountain music. The training sequences remain a favourite combination of film and score, not in the league of Ecstasy of Gold (what is?) but truly memorable.

Would I buy another iteration of the score? You bet I would.

 
 Posted:   Jan 15, 2016 - 6:11 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)



Anyways, I'll stop ranting now. Yes, we both dig this score and I have no problem with either a re-issue or an expanded release down the road, even if I am content with what I've got.


Agreed, I am content with the content of the available soundtrack.
I don't remember any substantial music missing from the movie, though it's been years that I've seen it, decades actually.
I'd certainly take a look if there's ever an expanded re-issue.

 
 Posted:   Jan 15, 2016 - 6:18 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

That's rather bizarre to me. I dislike expansions, and don't really respect a soundtrack album untill it has been rearranged for listening

Which in itself is bizarre, particularly, since an expanded and chronological presentation and arrangement for listening are not at odds by default. ;-)

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 15, 2016 - 7:45 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Allow me to attempt further bemusement smile. I adored both film and score from the moment it flickered onto the screen on first release, and saw it two or three times at the cinema after that. I even took my dad's Dictaphone to record the opening theme on one of the repeat showings.

I taped it (vhs) off TV back in the late 70s, and watched several times. It is an odd spy flick with alot of unpredictable (sometimes caricaturish) characters, but they all serve a purpose and Clint's Siegel-like direction takes them seriously - everyone gets close ups or whatever. You dont see that in other spy flicks. Combining the unpredictable with intimacy creates a provocative experience that you dont get with the pre-packaged Bond and his fake charming baggage that never convinces.

The Loo Sanction is a terrible book (but gets great customer reviews). I dunno how'd they'd make that into a movie.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 1, 2017 - 9:40 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Against my better judgment, I watched this never-ending turkey tonight. Actually, I'm not sure that it ever ended. It is probably still going on.

The first 30 or 45 minutes suggested that this might be a good period international spy film. I was very happy that Thayer David was in the film. It had a nice, understated 70s quality.

It quickly turned into a jock buddy film with lots of sexism, racism, and homophobia along the way. It was really hard to watch.

This has me thinking: Did John Williams ever score a decent film? All of his films are either Spielberg, George Lucas, or Irwin Allen. Then you find the oddball film that does not fall under one of these categories, and it is just as awful.

I give up.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 2, 2017 - 6:16 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Not sure where you're getting all the "isms." Because there is a flamboyantly gay character? The only racist comment is made by the idiot henchman who works for Thayer David, and which provokes Clint to beat him up. If you mean the black character's name? That's addressed from the get-go (and in the book). Or do you mean the "indian" girl who trains Clint? I thought all the women were as believable (or as limited) as the men. And you need the buddy-buddy thing for the ending, but I forgot, you didnt actually finish it.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 2, 2017 - 8:07 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I forgot, you didnt actually finish it.

No, I did.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 2, 2017 - 8:26 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Then you know that the male bonding helped disguise the "villain" from the audience.
There's a difference between depiction and promotion of certain behaviors. Nobody would say Quint in JAWS was a hero. Likewise, Kennedy's blowhard "manly" insensitive character is what he is, just a character. He comes across a little more interesting at the end when he reveals his secrets, but that's about it. Clint's character is also far from heroic, but much more interesting than James Bond.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 2, 2017 - 8:42 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Not sure where you're getting all the "isms."

All of us may not pick up on this stuff to the same degree.

 
 Posted:   Apr 2, 2017 - 8:57 AM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

Against my better judgment, I watched this never-ending turkey tonight. Actually, I'm not sure that it ever ended. It is probably still going on.

The first 30 or 45 minutes suggested that this might be a good period international spy film. I was very happy that Thayer David was in the film. It had a nice, understated 70s quality.

It quickly turned into a jock buddy film with lots of sexism, racism, and homophobia along the way. It was really hard to watch.


It's what you mostly got from a Clint Eastwood movie and what made them so popular with so many in the States -- it's a celebration of a certain breed of uniquely American right-wing"ism." A low-brow aesthetic ethic, quite conservative, but also somewhat charmingly square that in this case flirts with campiness. Eastwood was more thoughtful as a filmmaker than as just a film star, but the puddle doesn't run very deep.

The last time I watched BREEZY, I found the underlining conservative sensibilities in it very revolting.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 2, 2017 - 10:36 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

It's what you mostly got from a Clint Eastwood movie and what made them so popular with so many in the States -- it's a celebration of a certain breed of uniquely American right-wing"ism." A low-brow aesthetic ethic, quite conservative, but also somewhat charmingly square that in this case flirts with campiness. Eastwood was more thoughtful as a filmmaker than as just a film star, but the puddle doesn't run very deep.

The last time I watched BREEZY, I found the underlining conservative sensibilities in it very revolting.


I guess this just about sums it up. I like Clint in GBU, the first two or three Dirty Harry flicks, and Play Misty for Me, and not much beyond that. Bird was pretty good.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 2, 2017 - 11:39 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

It's what you mostly got from a Clint Eastwood movie and what made them so popular with so many in the States -- it's a celebration of a certain breed of uniquely American right-wing"ism." A low-brow aesthetic ethic, quite conservative, but also somewhat charmingly square that in this case flirts with campiness. Eastwood was more thoughtful as a filmmaker than as just a film star, but the puddle doesn't run very deep.

The last time I watched BREEZY, I found the underlining conservative sensibilities in it very revolting.


I guess this just about sums it up. I like Clint in GBU, the first two or three Dirty Harry flicks, and Play Misty for Me, and not much beyond that. Bird was pretty good.


Anyone who agrees with Rory, well, I rest my case (even though my Clint fav list is even smaller than yours, onya).wink
I dont find anything in EIGER to be a celebration of America (just the opposite) just because it's on display. George Kennedy is basically a stand-in for the orangutan in the later Clint comedies (which I've never seen, I draw the line at sapien-simian bonding).

 
 Posted:   Apr 2, 2017 - 12:02 PM   
 By:   Advise & Consent   (Member)

Not sure where you're getting all the "isms."

All of us may not pick up on this stuff to the same degree.


Yes. It takes an unusual degree of sensitivity to pick up on these things.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 2, 2017 - 12:05 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Yes. It takes an unusual degree of sensitivity to pick up on these things.

It takes being awake and aware.

I get that times change, but that doesn't necessarily make certain things from the past any easier to experience.

 
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