Film Score Monthly
FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM   
Search Terms: 
Search Within:   search tips 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2017 - 5:12 PM   
 By:   Timmer   (Member)

ddp

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2017 - 5:20 PM   
 By:   Timmer   (Member)

Was that first homage done by JRJR?

Rob Liefeld. If you are not familiar with his work, he is one of the most polarizing "hot" artists from the '90s. To keep the topic to DC, one of his earliest works was a Hawk and Dove mini-series he did with Karl and Barbara Kesel.

He even did a levi's commercial!



Yep. I remember that commercial.

I still don't like his art. I don't like the "Image" look. I've warmed to Jim Lee's recent art, though. His covers for DC are outstanding, lately. I also like Greg Capullo's style.

But Liefeld? Platt? Ugh.


As I remember this was the most controversial Liefeld image...



Not like at all.

The proportions and angles are about the worst I've seen from a comic book professional of the modern age. Dare I say it's like a pulp version of Picasso.

 
 Posted:   Sep 4, 2017 - 1:59 PM   
 By:   drop_forge   (Member)

Rob's anatomy is better nowadays, but he made many bizarre choices in his "art" back in the 80s/90s. There are many blogs that capture those moments, like the one above with Cap, which is some truly bizarre anatomy there. He'd also do things like placing feet in the opposite direction of the rest of the character.

Regarding that Hawk & Dove miniseries he drew, IIRC that's the one where he drew an entire issue "landscape" style, i.e. sideways, and they had to XEROX AND CUT UP THE PAGES WITH AN X-ACTO BLADE in order to "rearrange" the panels correctly for publication!

Yes, that's what happened!

http://www.dcinthe80s.com/2016/12/reviewing-1988-hawk-dove-mini-series.html



[Editor Mike] Carlin is referring to the fact that Liefeld submitted some of his final pencilled pages for Hawk & Dove v2 #5 in a 'landscape' style [as opposed to the 'portrait' style you see when you read a comic upright]. This led to Karl Kesel and Mike Carlin needing to xerox and lightbox Liefeld's finished panels into an upright position in order to get the book ready for print.

Here's Karl's take:

http://www.cbr.com/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-36/

Yes, Rob did draw the entire Chaos Dimension sequence sideways or “landscape” style. He did this without consulting anyone. I’m sure Rob saw this as cool and different and exciting, but the editor, Mike Carlin, was not quite as thrilled. Personally, I’m not a huge fan of having to turn a comic sideways to read a story, especially not in the middle of an issue. It pulls you out of the story by calling far too much attention to itself. It can be done– there was a great issue of the Moore/Bissett/Totleben SWAMP THING that actually had you turn the comic completely around as you read it that was an amazing use of the device; and John Byrne did a FANTASTIC FOUR story set in the Negative Zone where it worked well– but generally I think it’s best to avoid.

Anyway. By the time we reached the last issue of the mini-series, Rob’s sights were clearly on other horizons. He had gotten later and later on deadlines…The Chaos Dimension sequence seemed to be the last straw for Carlin. As I remember it, Mike called me up to tell me that Rob had drawn the sequence sideways for no good reason, and that he (Carlin) was going to cut-and-paste it (using xeroxes) into a readable form and send those to me. Which he did. I lightboxed them onto DC paper and inked them.

By the way: Rob did NOT draw the dimension sideways because that’s how it had been drawn the only other time it had been shown. THIS was the first time it had been shown– Barbara and I created it for this story.

Mike Carlin once said of Rob: “He has it. He just doesn’t have it yet.” And I couldn’t agree more. Rob is one of the most energetic and charming people I’ve ever met– you can’t help but like him– and at the time of H&D his work showed great potential. But success came far too quickly and easily to him, and he never felt the need to develop that potential. Which is really too bad, because if he did I’m certain he would have left a very different mark on the industry. Not that things worked out that badly for him…

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2017 - 10:22 AM   
 By:   Gordon Reeves   (Member)



As a certain Vulcan would assess: "Fascinating" wink



 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2017 - 3:27 PM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Len Wein died:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/len-wein-remembered-by-chris-claremont-1038085

Swamp Thing and Lucius Fox were among his DC creations. His run on Batman in 1979-80 was my introduction to the comic.

This could be in the Marvel thread too, given Wein's involvement with the Uncanny X-Men.

Man, this is a tough one.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 15, 2017 - 9:53 AM   
 By:   Gordon Reeves   (Member)

smile









frown

 
 Posted:   Sep 15, 2017 - 10:00 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Len reflects on his Batman tenure. Interesting anecdote about Marshall Rogers:

Dan Greenfield: And those were the two last Marshall Rogers issues, weren’t they?

Len Wein: Yes. Exactly. Yeah, it’s a very weird story, too. After I did the two-parter, I got called into Joe Orlando’s office. Joe was editorial coordinator at the time and he said, “We gotta sit and talk,” and I said, “Oh, God. Now what’s wrong?” And he said, “I just had a conversation with Marshall Rogers about the book and he’s really not very happy with what you’re scripting. You don’t script the way that Steve does and he just isn’t as happy with your style.” And I’m going, “Oh, God!”

I just gave up the four top Marvel books and here I am about to get fired off the book I came back to DC for. The next thing Joe said was, “So who do you want to replace Marshall with?” (Dan laughs) I went, “Oh, thank God,” and I said, “Nobody. Why not just shift books and I’ll just take over Batman. I don’t wanna…” You know? But Marshall pretty much left on his own right after that anyway.


http://13thdimension.com/the-len-wein-interviews-the-coming-of-clayface/

 
 Posted:   Sep 18, 2017 - 6:24 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

One of the reasons I posted the above interview with Len Wein is because in it he discusses his brief collaboration with artist Marshall Rogers. Rogers apparently disliked Wein's plotting style and asked to be taken off the book. This revelation makes Steve Englehart's "He Died for Our Sins" piece about Rogers never getting a chance to return to Batman all the more convincing to me about what a difficult person Englehart must be. He has beefs with almost everyone, yet it's always "their" fault. Englehart was (is?) a brilliant writer--one of Batman's best--but he has the "artistic" temperament that someone like Jim Shooter--he's no prince to work for, I suppose--must have sent Englehart over the moon....with rage.

Here's the Englehart piece:

http://13thdimension.com/remembering-marshall-rogers-by-steve-englehart/

 
 Posted:   Sep 18, 2017 - 6:28 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

BTW, the comic book store owner I know grew up and knew Len when they were kids. Len was a few years older and was already friends with Jack Kirby. Wein was an irrascible sort and would kick out my comic guy and his friends whenever The King was due to stop by Len's house. Such was the world of comic creators and fans back in the '60s.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 18, 2017 - 9:53 AM   
 By:   Gordon Reeves   (Member)



Given the infantile nature of most creators – comics are no different in that regard than Hollyweird – it’s no accident
the inevitable occurred with Mr. Marshall taking a hike from the arrogant hubris of Egoholics Unlimited – no matter
what their damned name.



As we’ve mentioned on more than one occasion, Talent has absolutely ZIP to do with Character.



Then again, this does provide the brilliantly-belated and long-overdue opportunity for a proper Appreciation for one of our favorite all-time (and woefully under-estimated) artists …



 
 Posted:   Sep 18, 2017 - 9:56 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

A Marshall Rogers appreciation? Bring it on, friend Gordon!

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 18, 2017 - 9:58 AM   
 By:   Gordon Reeves   (Member)



Knot just us, Effendi: EVERYONE'S invited smile



So Getta MOVE on!!!

wink

 
 Posted:   Sep 18, 2017 - 11:06 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

I'm not even sure if the Englehart-Rogers stories are currently in print!

C'mon DC, ya gotsta remedy that!

 
 Posted:   Sep 18, 2017 - 10:15 PM   
 By:   Michael Scorefan   (Member)

Marshall Rogers is an amazing artist. Admittedly, I know him more for his Marvel work, but his work with Steve Engelhart on their original Batman run is spectacular. It is hard to imagine that the trade reprinting this run (Batman: Strange Apparitions) is out of print. Hopefully DC will remedy that soon. Anyway, an amazing artist:

 
 Posted:   Sep 19, 2017 - 3:11 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Speaking of Rogers not drawing Batman, while it was good to see his work in *any* mainstream comic book at the time, it was also disheartening to see the constraints put on Rogers' style in the issues of Marvel's G.I. JOE book:

http://www.myuselessknowledge.com/joe/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=450

Apparently Rogers was brought in to mop up the typically ugly mess that was the art of Todd McFarlane, though had I been younger at the time, I probably would have thought Todd's art was "revolutionary"; glad I wasn't, so I didn't.

http://www.cbr.com/comic-book-legends-revealed-182/

 
 Posted:   Sep 19, 2017 - 11:06 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

I've only watched part one so far, but this "Legends of Comic Books Panel" features Len Wein, Gerry Conway, and Marv Wolfman. They discuss the "surprisingly" successful characters they've created. The sound is a bit echoey, but it's still audible.

 
 Posted:   Sep 19, 2017 - 11:33 AM   
 By:   drop_forge   (Member)

Apparently Rogers was brought in to mop up the typically ugly mess that was the art of Todd McFarlane, though had I been younger at the time, I probably would have thought Todd's art was "revolutionary"; glad I wasn't, so I didn't.

I'm at my LCS on Saturday to pick up a couple weeks' worth of new issues. I always take the time to look through the Bronze Age inventory. On top of the boxes are a few stacks of comics that haven't been filed, that are clearly Copper Age, not Bronze.

In one stack is an issue of Prophet. Remember that piece o' crap? Liefeld started it, and then a guy called Stephen Platt took over the art. His style literally embodied the worst of Liefeld and McFarlane jammed together into a confetti sandwich. It was perhaps THE ugliest cover I've seen published, and I've seen many!

I LOL'd and yelled at Sid, the owner: "Hey, so good of you to remind me of this crap era!"

He laughed, too. He walked over and went, "I also bought those when they were new, and I can never remember what the stories were like!"

Me in Harlan Ellison mode: "WHAT STORIES!! It was all crap! Image made nothin' but crap back then!" big grin

 
 Posted:   Sep 20, 2017 - 11:34 AM   
 By:   drop_forge   (Member)

Here's the aforementioned cover. The phrase "shit the bed" comes to mind. big grin

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2017 - 3:52 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Wow, that's hideous beyond belief, though I have seen much worse. LOL

Luckily I sat out most of the '90s in comics, though the Bat books (somewhat) avoided that decade's ugliness. The Bat books I read had Graham Nolan, Jim Aparo, and Eduardo Barreto on art duties. I don't count Kelley Jones because his renditions of Batman are brilliantly grotesque and appropriate to what Doug Moench was writing. Jones is the Sienkiewicz of the '90s.

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2017 - 11:16 AM   
 By:   drop_forge   (Member)

Wow, that's hideous beyond belief, though I have seen much worse. LOL

Luckily I sat out most of the '90s in comics, though the Bat books (somewhat) avoided that decade's ugliness. The Bat books I read had Graham Nolan, Jom Aparo, and Eduardo Barreto on art duties. I don't count Kelley Jones because his renditions of Batman are brilliantly grotesque and appropriate to what Doug Moench was writing. Jones is the Sienkiewicz of the '90s.


There is so much wrong with that cover, I almost don't know where to start. If you've seen genuinely worse, please share, hahaha!

That anatomy is beyond grotesque. I'm not sure if a word exists to describe what Platt did there. We'll just use "inexcusably bad." How many extra muscles are on those thighs/legs? Why did he shake his pen so often at the paper? Is that supposed to be rain? Where does Prophet end and his equally funky looking nemesis start? The perspective and coloring is bad, too.

 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
© 2019 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved.