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 Posted:   Aug 24, 2017 - 6:32 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Like last year, my birthday spoils included comic stuff. This time I got the tpb of Superman vs. Mongul:

http://www.amzn.com/1401242561

It has two issues I don't already own, the rather pricey DC Comics Presents #27 and Superman Annual #11. The former is Mongul's first appearance and the latter is written by Alan Moore, possibly the only writer whose work causes a book's value to skyrocket, so getting the tpb was a much cheaper option.

I also got the long-awaited-by-me Tales of the Batman: Gerry Conway Vol. 1.

http://www.amzn.com/140127255X

The contents include a dozen issues I don't have; subsequent volumes will be repeated material but I'll still get them. smile

 
 Posted:   Aug 24, 2017 - 11:29 AM   
 By:   Michael Scorefan   (Member)

Like last year, my birthday spoils included comic stuff. This time I got the tpb of Superman vs. Mongul:

http://www.amzn.com/1401242561

It has two issues I don't already own, the rather pricey DC Comics Presents #27 and Superman Annual #11. The former is Mongul's first appearance and the latter is written by Alan Moore, possibly the only writer whose work causes a book's value to skyrocket, so getting the tpb was a much cheaper option.

I also got the long-awaited-by-me Tales of the Batman: Gerry Conway Vol. 1.

http://www.amzn.com/140127255X

The contents include a dozen issues I don't have; subsequent volumes will be repeated material but I'll still get them. smile


Looks like a good haul. Those Tales of the Batman collections are very dangerous. I have three or four of them, but I would like many more. I don't think I have read any of Gerry Conway's Batman stories. I mostly know him from his many Spider-Man stories, although on the DC side his Firestorm run was a lot of fun.

Let me know what you think of Superman vs. Mongul. I have read the Alan Moore story, of course, which I love, but I don't think I have read any of his earlier appearances. Stories featuring him since have been uneven, although I always enjoyed this story:


 
 Posted:   Aug 25, 2017 - 9:36 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Your enjoyment of that tpb depends on the level of affection you have for pre-Crisis DC Comics. I am thoroughly enjoying it despite some of the trappings of that era (for instance, Supes and Supergirl constantly calling one another "cousin" grates) but other than those slight criticisms, the collection is a lot of Bronze/Copper Age fun.

Mongul and Superman have an awesome throwdown in a couple of the issues included in the tpb.

 
 Posted:   Aug 26, 2017 - 8:06 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

There's also a pretty cool fight between Superman and the Martian Manhunter. Good stuff all around. I'm a big Len Wein fan despite some of his dialogue in this, and Jim Starlin knows how to refine an idea made by someone else. wink Good artist, though.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2017 - 11:54 AM   
 By:   Gordon Reeves   (Member)



Between this



und This



came THIS transformative (if not as seminal as the first two) creative passage.



Comments? Department:

 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2017 - 5:18 PM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

The heads in the wicker "helmets" thing is one of the moments I remember best from RONIN. I had no idea they used it in the House Ad!

I read RONIN when I was about 13, which is when it was published. As somene who was unfamiliar with Epic and the more mature mags of the day, reading Ronin was mindblowing! I loved the first issue, which IIRC was in Feudal Japan. I was skimming some history of that era in Japanese history, so Miller covering it was invigorating and brought the period alive for me. I of course loved The Hand, the nefarious ninja crime organization and Kirigi, the undead ninja in Miller's legendary first run on DAREDEVIL, whch also added to the enthusiasm for All Things Ninja (after all, it was the early '80s).

Then...it became a dystopic futuristic epic that was to me so ugly, graphic, and grim. Miller was always intense, but young me was taken aback by the vivid and graphic world of Miller's vision, but I grew to like it, if not worship and adore it. wink One could see the seeds of TDKR in RONIN and I appreciated that Miller added to that in subsequent works--sometimes achieving greatness, sometimes not.

I haven't read RONN in thirty years and I no longer have my orignal copies, but I'll have to remedy that. smile

 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2017 - 11:40 PM   
 By:   Michael Scorefan   (Member)

Ronin was one of the earliest series I read when I started getting into comics seriously. Like Jim, I enjoyed the Feudal Japan scenes the best, but the whole series had some amazing moments throughout. It also had its share of disturbing scenes. The scene when those two guys are tied to a post and you see cannibals or zombie like creatures slowly rising from the pit coming to get them was incredibly creepy. Miller showed a lot of emotion on those doomed guys' faces, and you could feel their great sense of dread.

I haven't read it in a while. I will have to dig it out and read it again. Every once in a while there is talk of the series being adapted into film. Not sure if they could make that work, but we will see.

Although it was certainly overshadowed by Daredevil and Dark Knight Returns, it is still a seminal work of Miller's. Some artists have taken "inspiration" from Miller's art. For example, this panel from Ronin:



has been lifted a couple of times, like here:



and here:



To be fair, with this Vader vs. Maul panel, the artist at least attempted to vary it a bit so it wasn't quite as blatant.

 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2017 - 6:39 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Was that first homage done by JRJR?

 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2017 - 7:09 AM   
 By:   Michael Scorefan   (Member)

Was that first homage done by JRJR?

Rob Liefeld. If you are not familiar with his work, he is one of the most polarizing "hot" artists from the '90s. To keep the topic to DC, one of his earliest works was a Hawk and Dove mini-series he did with Karl and Barbara Kesel.

He even did a levi's commercial!

 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2017 - 7:23 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

He was my second guess, followed by Jim Lee--clearly I'm unfamiliar with Marvel from that era! LOL

Liefeld looked like a kid himself when he did that ad. I like how he quickly says "Mm hmm!" when they ask if he created X-Force, which featured numerous characters created by other, superior comic book creators!

 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2017 - 7:45 AM   
 By:   Michael Scorefan   (Member)

I like how he quickly says "Mm hmm!" when they ask if he created X-Force, which featured numerous characters created by other, superior comic book creators!

Exactly. Basically New Mutants rebranded. One of the few characters on the team he could make an argument about creating was Cable, and the question of who really created him is debated to this day. A lot of his detractors had a field day with Liefeld's "Mm hmm!" statement at the various rec.arts.comics discussion groups back when the commercial aired.

 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2017 - 8:08 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

I like how he quickly says "Mm hmm!" when they ask if he created X-Force, which featured numerous characters created by other, superior comic book creators!

Exactly. Basically New Mutants rebranded. One of the few characters on the team he could make an argument about creating was Cable, and the question of who really created him is debated to this day. A lot of his detractors had a field day with Liefeld's "Mm hmm!" statement at the various rec.arts.comics discussion groups back when the commercial aired.


The "Mm-hmm" LOL and the "You never went to art school?" were the two standout moments in that commercial. Awkward!

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2017 - 9:33 AM   
 By:   Gordon Reeves   (Member)

smile

Equally Distinguished for Der Competition, No? Department:









wink

 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2017 - 9:48 AM   
 By:   Michael Scorefan   (Member)

The Man of Steel miniseries by Byrne was among the first DC books I bought, and I have always enjoyed his take on Superman. I was less of a fan of most of his other DC work.

I really enjoyed the Elseworlds annual Byrne did when an ancestor of Kal-El's landed on Earth during the 18th century.



I also enjoyed the two DC/Marvel cross-overs he did including Batman/Captain America and this one:



At the time he did this crossover he was mostly doing work for Darkhorse. He stated that a fan gave him the idea for the cross-over (Galactus eats Apokolips) and he went to some lengths to track that fan down so he could give him credit.

 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2017 - 11:55 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

This and the Marvel thread continue to cost me money! I have to read that Darkseid-Galactus story!

 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2017 - 12:29 PM   
 By:   drop_forge   (Member)

The heads in the wicker "helmets" thing is one of the moments I remember best from RONIN. I had no idea they used it in the House Ad!

I read RONIN when I was about 13, which is when it was published. As somene who was unfamiliar with Epic and the more mature mags of the day, reading Ronin was mindblowing! I loved the first issue, which IIRC was in Feudal Japan. I was skimming some history of that era in Japanese history, so Miller covering it was invigorating and brought the period alive for me. I of course loved The Hand, the nefarious ninja crime organization and Kirigi, the undead ninja in Miller's legendary first run on DAREDEVIL, whch also added to the enthusiasm for All Things Ninja (after all, it was the early '80s).

Then...it became a dystopic futuristic epic that was to me so ugly, graphic, and grim. Miller was always intense, but young me was taken aback by the vivid and graphic world of Miller's vision, but I grew to like it, if not worship and adore it. wink One could see the seeds of TDKR in RONIN and I appreciated that Miller added to that in subsequent works--sometimes achieving greatness, sometimes not.

I haven't read RONN in thirty years and I no longer have my orignal copies, but I'll have to remedy that. smile


Looks like you and I are about the same age (though I didn't turn 13 till late in the year).

Ronin remains, to me, Miller's crowning achievement. Most people consider that to be The Dark Knight, but Ronin was an original work, and his art was never better than on that. He experimented, but it never became incomprehensible. Lynn Varley's colors only further enhanced the visuals. Miller was influenced by Lone Wolf & Cub, but he didn't swipe from it.

I read Ronin when it was new and loved it. I was already of fan of Frank's thanks to his rescuing Daredevil from the cancellation ax. I just picked up an old trade collection at a con for a whole dollar, so now I'm going to reread it again without opening my Mylar bags to get at my originals. smile

(And yeah, the house ad with the flying wicker heads rocked!)

 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2017 - 12:34 PM   
 By:   drop_forge   (Member)

Was that first homage done by JRJR?

Rob Liefeld. If you are not familiar with his work, he is one of the most polarizing "hot" artists from the '90s. To keep the topic to DC, one of his earliest works was a Hawk and Dove mini-series he did with Karl and Barbara Kesel.

He even did a levi's commercial!



Yep. I remember that commercial.

I still don't like his art. I don't like the "Image" look. I've warmed to Jim Lee's recent art, though. His covers for DC are outstanding, lately. I also like Greg Capullo's style.

But Liefeld? Platt? Ugh.

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2017 - 3:19 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)


Ronin remains, to me, Miller's crowning achievement. Most people consider that to be The Dark Knight, but Ronin was an original work, and his art was never better than on that. He experimented, but it never became incomprehensible. Lynn Varley's colors only further enhanced the visuals. Miller was influenced by Lone Wolf & Cub, but he didn't swipe from it.

I read Ronin when it was new and loved it. I was already of fan of Frank's thanks to his rescuing Daredevil from the cancellation ax. I just picked up an old trade collection at a con for a whole dollar, so now I'm going to reread it again without opening my Mylar bags to get at my originals. smile

(And yeah, the house ad with the flying wicker heads rocked!)


I prefer the art and layouts in RONIN over that of Miller's subsequent work, that's for sure.

If RONIN had featured a mainstream DC character (or Marvel; I wonder if this story originally had Wolverine in mind) as its lead, I'm sure we would have spent a lot more time raving about it. It's kind of like how some deserving film scores don't get the acclaim around here because they weren't composed by big "brand name" composers like Williams or Goldsmith.

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2017 - 2:17 PM   
 By:   Michael Scorefan   (Member)

If RONIN had featured a mainstream DC character (or Marvel; I wonder if this story originally had Wolverine in mind) as its lead, I'm sure we would have spent a lot more time raving about it. It's kind of like how some deserving film scores don't get the acclaim around here because they weren't composed by big "brand name" composers like Williams or Goldsmith.

Possibly. I think a key distinction between this and his other DC and Marvel work is that Ronin is self-contained. His work on Dark Knight Returns (and Batman: Year One) resonates because creators still reference his work, for good or bad, when telling Batman stories. This is true with Batman stories told in every medium. The same is also true of Daredevil. Despite these stories being 30+ years old, their influence is still felt. When there are no more Ronin stories being told, it is tough to have the same level of impact his other works enjoy.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2017 - 5:10 PM   
 By:   Timmer   (Member)

dp

 
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