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Posted: |
Oct 3, 2018 - 7:49 AM
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By: |
Jim Phelps
(Member)
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I can understand the Superman II criticisms, and find myself nodding in agreement with them, not unlike a braying ass. As a child in 1981, I certainly enjoyed Superman II for the action scenes, and for Superman getting the "Empire Strikes Back" treatment from General Zod and company. I was always interested in the concept of The Phantom Zone, though not so much as it was presented in these films. I will admit that movie Zod's costume was an improvement over the "Village People Biker" outfit Zod sported in the comics. Back then, I probably didn't even notice the score because as long as the Superman theme was present, I was happy. I haven't watched the film in many years, but the mostly positive remarks here regarding the improved sound on Superman II, as well as LaLa's upcoming release, have me fairly excited about it. Well done, boys; but it's still no substitute for the 1978 score.
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Ken Thorne gets a bum rap. But irrespective of that, one thing some people want from the Superman II and III scores is the pure nostalgia of it. If you watched these movies many times as a kid, on a premium cable channel or home video, you might have a special fondness for the music. It's a thing in film music that goes way beyond the Superman franchise, and there's nothing wrong with it.
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Alexander Salkind didn't want to pay Marlon another 11.3% of profits from Superman 2. He felt that Christopher Reeve was the star of the show now, and Marlon wasn't needed. I disagree, but then I'm not having to pay Marlon a whopping 11.3%. As for Donner, he conveniently doesn't tell you that he called the Salkinds "assholes" in Variety and that "If Spengler is on the movie [Superman 2], he ain't." So he told his employers he wasn't interested in Superman 2 if Pierre Spengler was involved. No wonder he got fired. Marlin filed a lawsuit against the Salkinds and Won! About the contract of Brando being in Superman 2 ?.and monies owed to him.
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Alexander Salkind didn't want to pay Marlon another 11.3% of profits from Superman 2. He felt that Christopher Reeve was the star of the show now, and Marlon wasn't needed. I disagree, but then I'm not having to pay Marlon a whopping 11.3%. As for Donner, he conveniently doesn't tell you that he called the Salkinds "assholes" in Variety and that "If Spengler is on the movie [Superman 2], he ain't." So he told his employers he wasn't interested in Superman 2 if Pierre Spengler was involved. No wonder he got fired. I am here to help..While Superman was being filmed, Donner also filmed Superman 2 at the same time..using all sets and crew. 70-80% of Superman 2 had already been Directed by Donner. Donner was never ever, ever never given a budget. Spengler the producer was Salkinds buddy and truly made things worst for Donner and Crew, hence Lil dick Lester was the go between of Donner and Producer and Salkinds.
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Wow..I should write that Book! “ How The Salkinds Truly Fucked Up Superman! Lol. Hopefully you hire an editor and do it in your native language. Jesus loves you.
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Come October 23, Superman II and III fans will be happy, thanks to LaLaLand. Meanwhile, the anticipation builds... I will pass on 50 people of the London High School Band playing John Williams Music...Thin Tinny Sound not my cup of tea. The Salkinds truly took the Cheap O way out! Now I await John Williams and LSO Performing Superman That's not true. Superman 2 sounds very good on the film's 6 track and on the CD. Superman 3 sounds decent as well. Certainly not cheap. Yes, the orchestra had to be reduced because they were recording in a different studio which couldn't accommodate more players, but it does sound good. Perhaps the budget was smaller for the music, but not enough for it to affect quality drastically. If anything, Ken Thorne should have been allowed to create some original music for Superman 2 to showcase his talent. Please clean out all earwax. Superman 2 sound was Thin and Williams used 100 Members of LSO..while The Salkinds Told Ken Thorne to use 50 players of the London High School Band. 50 less sounds very weak and thin, while performing Williams large orchestra pieces. And when FSM produced the Blue Box..it was discussed then, that No One from the LSO performed Ken Thornes Music for Superman 2. The music was performed at the CTS Studios, Wembley, London in the spring of 1980 by a studio session orchestra (rather than the London Symphony Orchestra, who had played for the first film). It has been since reported that John Richards..when recording the Music for Superman had botch the sound, by not spreading into all 6 tracks...for Movie Release, though it has been corrected since. And that also Warner Sound also botched up along with Gerry Humphries re-recordings..for the very thin sounding sounds of Superman 2.
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I can understand the Superman II criticisms, and find myself nodding in agreement with them, not unlike a braying ass. As a child in 1981, I certainly enjoyed Superman II for the action scenes, and for Superman getting the "Empire Strikes Back" treatment from General Zod and company. I was always interested in the concept of The Phantom Zone, though not so much as it was presented in these films. I will admit that movie Zod's costume was an improvement over the "Village People Biker" outfit Zod sported in the comics. Back then, I probably didn't even notice the score because as long as the Superman theme was present, I was happy. I haven't watched the film in many years, but the mostly positive remarks here regarding the improved sound on Superman II, as well as LaLa's upcoming release, have me fairly excited about it. Well done, boys; but it's still no substitute for the 1978 score. When I went to see Superman 2 ...I could here the differences right off between Superman and Superman 2 ..not only the music but the complete thin sounding sounds. What was missing was that deep sounds of Superman. Voices sounded different...I was so damn disappointed. A True WTF moment.
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As a kid seeing all the Superman films first run, Superman II was amazing. It looked just as epic as the first, was a more straight line narrative and I had no issues with the music. When it repeated endlessly on cable, I watched it repeatedly. I’ve had it on various forms of video ever since and it in no way looks like a TV movie. There’s plenty of money and care involved. Comparing the Donner cut to the Lester, I still prefer the theatrical release. There are no fewer jokes in the Donner, in fact, the characters and performances are less nuanced. In the Donner sequences. Lois is a lunatic in the original version and the Newman/Lester version she’s much more ration and mature. She isn’t trying desperately to out Clark and she isn’t wildly over the top. The romance seems much more natural and the performances are wonderful. Maybe the final version would have included reshoots to smooth out those rough spots, but unless they actually rewrote the Lois subplot, I can't see it being better on a story level. Donner and Mank were too in love with their own work and Michael Thau did the film no favors with his amateurish editing. Personally, I feel the best version of SUperman II is a combination of both. The Brando scenes are amazing and the expanded prison stuff was always hysterical ("Hi there Mr. Fogelstein...") As for the score, Ken Thorne did the best he could and while the film mix is very flat, the CD mix is much better and more full. I love it. I also enjoy the music to Superman III. And IV. Upon release, Superman II was considered the superior film of the two. The bitching about it started fairly recently. Which I never understood. Love both films and they work well as one long story.
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My kids wanted to watch Superman last night. They've seen it before but not since the were really little. About halfway through the opening credits my daughter shouted "BORING!" (Which I think Richard Donner also says on the commentary.) But otherwise they loved it.
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Cinema Retro has an extensive retrospective in current issue. No JW interview, alas.
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II has been discussed at length on the OTHER SIDE! Fyi it was critically praised but fans disliked it.
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When I went to see Superman 2 ...I could here the differences right off between Superman and Superman 2 ..not only the music but the complete thin sounding sounds. What was missing was that deep sounds of Superman. Voices sounded different...I was so damn disappointed. A True WTF moment. You were no doubt of a more mature vintage than I was in 1981, so you have a clearer memory of Superman II than I do. In keeping with the positive and uplifting spirit of this thread, what are your memories of the music when you first saw Superman: The Movie? I was impressed and still today totally impressed by the opening..Wow then and big Wow now! I just loved how John Williams Music truly made you believe a man could fly! The Opening still sends Chills all over. Donners vision was Grand..Beautiful Cinematography By Geoffrey Unsworth(Should of been nominated for Oscar) Excellent Editing By Stuart Baird. A True Story..When John Williams and The LSO performed the beginning Of Superman..Richard Donner RUIN the Take by running on stage of LSO..shouting to Williams..”You Saved My Film” While the Visuals Ran Hot And Cold, I loved the Helicopter Sequence. The Beginning Of Superman On Krypton was Bloated...Heavy handed. But when The Spaceship Crashes through the glass..and Williams Music is Right there...a Wow moment. I have always thought Chris Reeve was robbed of an Oscar Nomination..Playing Dual Roles..Amazing Performances... Even as a young lad in 1978..and still today...Superman is a Great Movie..Enhanced by one of my Favorite Scores Of John Williams.
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