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 Posted:   Jan 9, 2020 - 4:54 PM   
 By:   Trent B   (Member)

Another leftist who is a complete dumb arse saying something is racist because they can. Good lord it's just film score music. NO HARM comes from film score music except enjoyment. He might as well say ALL film score music is racist.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 9, 2020 - 4:59 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

[Me: grabs pitchfork, joins mob]

Your comment made me laugh....

I actually don't think the score is racist. I don't disagree with the article outright; it makes some valid points and serves, I think, as more of a conversation-starter than anything. I've enjoyed John Williams' Star Wars scores my entire life. Ditto the movies, to varying degree. So I enjoyed being presented with another way to consider them.

Full Disclosure: I also prefer Jerry Goldsmith to John Williams. So, you know ... clearly I'm operating here with an agenda lol.


I'm just delighted that I've found a new way to annoy John Williams fans!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 9, 2020 - 5:06 PM   
 By:   KeoNato   (Member)

Another leftist who is a complete dumb arse saying something is racist because they can. Good lord it's just film score music. NO HARM comes from film score music except enjoyment. He might as well say ALL film score music is racist.

The point isn’t that film music is harmful more so that things that reinforce stereotypes that serve to other and alienate can be.

 
 Posted:   Jan 9, 2020 - 5:23 PM   
 By:   Penelope Pineapple   (Member)

Another leftist who is a complete dumb arse saying something is racist because they can. Good lord it's just film score music. NO HARM comes from film score music except enjoyment. He might as well say ALL film score music is racist.

Nowhere in Mr Chen's article does he use the word "racist." He does not accuse John Williams of being a racist in the article, he does not accuse Hollywood of racism in the article, he does not accuse film scores as being racist. (And I'm not quite sure how a film score could be racist. Does a film score have agency? What's the sound of one film score clapping? Schrödinger's film score? I'll see myself out....) He discusses how music--something, I think, we all love here--can unintentionally reinforce stereotypes. He has a viewpoint and made an argument for it ... it's not that complicated.

 
 Posted:   Jan 9, 2020 - 5:38 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

Good lord it's just film score music. NO HARM comes from film score music except enjoyment.


That depends. Hitler knew the importance of film music and used it to help promote his "Master Race". Like the film music of Herbert Windt – the German composer who was the top film score composer of the Third Reich. His work included scores for Leni Riefenstahl's films and many more, and he also provided music for plenty of big Nazi events and radio progaganda. He was put on trial after the war, but was eventually released.

Windt clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PosxkUoHPaw

Makes one wonder what might have been if he'd taken a different path and fled Germany like Korngold and the others. He'd probably have taken some projects away from Max and Erich and Franz and ended up composing some of our favorite western and film noir scores... and having people here referring to him affectionately as "Herbie".

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 9, 2020 - 5:40 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

In retrospect, the goatee should have been a dead giveaway. There he was, hiding in plain sight for decades.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 9, 2020 - 9:55 PM   
 By:   Paul MacLean   (Member)

You can read the original article -- without subscribing -- here...

https://archive.is/5CuTF

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 9, 2020 - 9:56 PM   
 By:   jurassicmaromaro   (Member)

I think the problem with the article is it doesn’t take the time to offer all the perspectives and weigh them out against each other. Like for example the biggest rebuttal being, LOTR and Star Wars music focuses a lot on musical timbres (especially LOTR) that are chosen to fit a given mood. I remember in Return of the King the Mordor theme is played really harshly on a rhaita in the scene where the orcs march forth from Minas Morgul. This isn’t saying the rhaita is an ugly instrument or that cultures in which the rhaita is dominantly used as an instrument are bad, but in its use, it had the specific timbre required to musically communicate what was occurring in the scene. Same with the emperor chanting in Star Wars - I think he’s referring to Revenge of the Sith where there literally is throat singing for when Palpatine tells the Darth Plagueis story - but otherwise the Emperor’s theme is a long established low register theme where vocalists providing the lowest singing timbre possible fit that imagery of a menacing ultimate evil.

I’m a big fan of critical theory and the IDEA of what the author is asking audiences to consider is healthy but unfortunately very unreasonably communicated through criticism of the music of all things. I find this to be a trend now where contemporary criticism offers very thin arguments with few examples that assume righteousness of the present over the “un-woke” past - it’s at the core of “cancel culture” which assumes the present is right and all that has been in the past is wrong.

But context is everything - contemporary criticism of James Bond rightly points out that James Bond is a misogynist but seems to ignore that audiences felt the same way when the movies came out and that women also liked the films because James Bond was sexy to them. Same with Star Wars - contemporary criticism says Lando is a token character in Empire Strikes Back and bad role model because he’s a “bad guy”, yet African-American film critic Elvis Mitchell has a whole writeup on how audiences at the time felt it was so awesome to see Billy Dee Williams on screen and how it was a huge source of pride. And Glynn Turman was originally considered for Han Solo in the first Star Wars?

This is only scratching the surface, but good film theory is academic work that needs to provide breadth and depth. Turning it into pop culture content creation is not helping society.

 
 Posted:   Jan 9, 2020 - 9:57 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

They put a film score composer on trial at Nuremberg!?

Damn!

 
 Posted:   Jan 9, 2020 - 10:00 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

You can read the original article -- without subscribing -- here...

https://archive.is/5CuTF#selection-1341.0-1341.18


Pass.
I prefer to criticize articles I haven't read( esp. Academic ones)
wink

 
 Posted:   Jan 9, 2020 - 11:06 PM   
 By:   BornOfAJackal   (Member)

I read Chen's article. He's right that Hollywood should be getting other composers' sounds into its product. It'll only be good business, since movies, TV and all that streaming content don't really stay confined to national borders anymore.

As for the "cultural critique of the cultural critique", did you not expect the retrograde mentalities, trolls and redbaiters to jump on this? This stuff is Playboy magazine for the id to those fellow internet dwellers.

One only need log in and start typing for the masturbatory effects to take hold. Attempting to jack with the jackers only makes you a jackoff.

Let them enjoy their pudding, rancid as it is.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 9, 2020 - 11:21 PM   
 By:   Luc Van der Eeken   (Member)

[Me: grabs pitchfork, joins mob]

Your comment made me laugh....

I actually don't think the score is racist. I don't disagree with the article outright; it makes some valid points and serves, I think, as more of a conversation-starter than anything. I've enjoyed John Williams' Star Wars scores my entire life. Ditto the movies, to varying degree. So I enjoyed being presented with another way to consider them.

Full Disclosure: I also prefer Jerry Goldsmith to John Williams. So, you know ... clearly I'm operating here with an agenda lol.


I'm just delighted that I've found a new way to annoy John Williams fans!


You must feel very proud...

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 9, 2020 - 11:44 PM   
 By:   Dr Smith   (Member)

The entire Star Wars franchise, including the incredible body of John William's scores, has always been a quite old fashioned enterprise. George Lucas wanted Star Wars to be an update on the American Western movie, and that it is and forever shall be.
The music is similar to old fashioned romantic symphonic music, except for the villain's music, which is often much more interesting. I don't see the point in calling every stereotyped character or piece of music racist, but perhaps that is what our society today prefers.
In the old days, featuring exotic or non-western music was considered to be a virtue, and a sign of cultural appreciation. How and why this practice has now been turned into a social crime is a mystery to me.
So if this PHD student writer finds fault with Star Wars's music-fine; because that is how he makes his living.
I don't really disagree with his overall conclusion, but the way he expresses himself is more than a bit mean spirited.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 9, 2020 - 11:56 PM   
 By:   Mark   (Member)

An interesting sentence from Mr Chen's piece is where he says "There are plenty of young composers of non-Western descent whose work deserves to be heard and to frame our stories, and there are plenty of established artists, such as Tan Dun, Joe Hisaishi or A.R. Rahman, who could be hired for Hollywood assignments. .". His implication being (when read in context) that these 'oriental' composers should get the job to scoring films set in the 'orient' or with oriental themes ahead of Western composers. This ties in with the 'popular' complaint made by actors such as Richard E Grant that gay film parts should be reserved for gay actors. Surely taking this logic to its logical conclusion that would mean that, for example, Tan Dun, could ONLY compose music for 'oriental' films and had no business being given the gig on Fallen (98)....an American movie set in Philadelphia.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 9, 2020 - 11:59 PM   
 By:   moolik   (Member)

What the f.....????
Must be the most obscure post / article ever

 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2020 - 12:27 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

[An excellent multi-paragraphed word salad that would be wasted on this board, but also fuck anyone who agrees with that article]

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2020 - 12:35 AM   
 By:   lossless   (Member)

Insane lefty liberal brainwashed education.

Why doesn't he go after the fact Star Wars promotes elite Jewish values that poo poo on traditional White values.

Like come on the music... really.

 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2020 - 2:42 AM   
 By:   Adventures of Jarre Jarre   (Member)





PS:
"I'm Rey."
"Rey who?"
"Rey Stantz."

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2020 - 2:46 AM   
 By:   Loverozsa   (Member)

The whole idea is ridiculous and insulting to Mr. Williams. The jackass who wrote the article should find better uses for his time.

 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2020 - 2:46 AM   
 By:   Adventures of Jarre Jarre   (Member)

  • They put a film score composer on trial at Nuremberg!?

    They asked him if he was ever a member, or knew any members, of the Communist Party.

    And then something about "Is it safe?".

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