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 Posted:   Sep 19, 2019 - 2:36 PM   
 By:   Vestron   (Member)

I think some people involved with the album have heavily alluded to the reasons...

I have no inside knowledge myself, but it seems that we're talking about two composers who are still alive and kicking. I wouldn't think that either would really want to share the album space with the other.

And of course, there's an embarrassment issue involved as well. Would Silvestri want a score that he was only able to record for a few days (and which was unceremoniously tossed) out there? He didn't have time to finish or refine it, really. And would he sit for an interview to talk about it? I wouldn't think he'd want to.

It would sound like Hollywood poison for anyone involved to go down this road. Especially since a number of the filmmakers involved (and Tom Cruise himself) are still very active in the industry and the Mission Impossible franchise is still going. I don't think any of these people would sign off on "Hey, remember that guy we fired 23 years ago?" release. It took them six f'ing years to sign off on an expanded release of the score they DID use in the final movie!


Thanks John! There's actually some good points here. That was the kind of statement I was looking for. The embarrassment issue looks pretty much legit. Even if in my humble opinion Silvestri score was anyway amazing, I like very much the Elfman replacement one but still have a preference for the unused.


"Hey, remember that guy we fired 23 years ago?"

lol on this big grin

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 19, 2019 - 3:05 PM   
 By:   jurassicmaromaro   (Member)

Thanks for the info about the alternate tracks, I’m really looking forward to getting this.

Any insight into the process of changes for the score is fascinating because Silvestri and Elfman’s scores work so differently. It’s interesting to note the stylistic differences and how they resonate in the film. Since Elfman had such a short time too, the evolution (if any) of his work is also really insightful, especially for an action cue like the train chase because that sequence in particular is so strongly driven by the beats throughout it that I’d imagine it was one of the tougher cues to work out.

It’s also interesting that both Elfman and Silvestri started that sequence with music, but the music editor chose to fade up the music much later in the sequence and let it establish itself solely through the SFX/foley tracks.

It also seems like in general there were a lot of music editing tweaks to crossfade and loop certain sections in the movie.

Really excited to read the liner notes.

 
 Posted:   Oct 31, 2019 - 12:58 PM   
 By:   sajrocks   (Member)

A lengthy, horribly copyedited interview with Danny Elfman just posted to Fangoria with some really interesting insights on his experience working with DePalma and MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE.


FANGORIA: Speaking of synthetic scores, how well are you able to anticipate the trends or transitions that scoring seems to go through? Those in particular have become tremendously popular over the last few years.

Elfman: Which I’m also so happy for. I mean, it's always going to go through these surges of changes. Like something will come back in a way. I must've in my career seen at least three times when studios go, no orchestral, let's get it more rock and roll sounding orchestral’s getting old. And then like the biggest film of the year will come out with a big orchestral score and suddenly it's like, “it's back again.” And so they keep announcing its death, and there's been this constant desire to get more rock and roll-y, which generally I think is a real bad idea. I won't tell you what film, but there was a big film about 12 years ago-ish in the genre for which we're speaking. And I met with the director and he was like, “when he goes into such and such mode, electric guitars…,” and it's like, oh boy. And we're in the 2000s. And I was just thinking this is so ironic because not only is this outdated, what he's asking me to do, which in his mind is more contemporary. But when I rescored Mission: Impossible in the nineties, Brian De Palma was saying “electric guitars make it sound so old, and outdated.” So the mid-nineties, it was already to his ear sounding outdated, that bad-ass kind of electric guitar and I kind of balked. And then I got a lecture from my agent that the director thought you were really arrogant. And maybe I was, but at any rate, that desire to kind of rock and roll-ize scores usually fails dismally and dates it terribly unless it's the right film. I mean, I love playing bad electric guitar on films as much as anybody. And I don't know if any composers have more bad electric guitar playing in their films as me because it's all over a lot of stuff. The really nice acoustic stuff is always a guitarist I've been working with for years. But the nasty electric stuff, especially if it's out of tune, is always me. You hear that everywhere. Feedback, I love doing that kind of stuff. But I try to integrate it in a way that doesn't ever try to sound bad ass or as that director was saying when he asked for that power chord and I said, I'm all for electric guitars in scores, but orchestra and electric guitars is a dangerous combination if you do it the wrong way because the Superbowl has defined that - sports scoring, Wrestlemania, big wheels, all of these is orchestra with power chords.

[…]

in hindsight, my career is what it is and it was what it was, but they found me and I was most eager to comply. And the results were mixed. The Frighteners was a difficult film. It was kind of hard to nail down the tone. And in the end, Peter's mate Fran [Boyens], who's his collaborator, was not happy with the way things went down with me. And so I got the boot after that. I tried to move the schedule along a week early because I really wanted to do Mission: Impossible with Brian De Palma. And it just meant like a week overlap, because he was also on that list. And I don't think I was ever quite forgiven for that, but I enjoyed it. And I enjoyed working with De Palma. He was a trip.

[…]

I've literally had directors tell me that they're unhappy with a piece of music - can you make it more ‘Danny Elfman’?

FANGORIA: Do you know what that means now?

Elfman: I don't know what the fuck that means. It means like something that they're thinking of that I've already done. And that's hard. So if that means Beetlejuice, it's like, well Beetlejuice was Beetlejuice, this film isn't Beetlejuice. So you kinda try to do the best you can, but it's not always helpful. Sometimes what people hear in your music is indefinable. But one of my favorite moments was De Palma talking about themes. He goes, “you did this great theme for Dead Presidents.” And I realize what he's talking about was three bass drums, that essentially was the theme. It wasn't even a melodic instrument. So you never know what's going to stick in somebody's head. It's funny how people will hear things you never would have guessed.


Full article: https://www.fangoria.com/original/exclusive-interview-danny-elfman

 
 Posted:   Oct 31, 2019 - 1:27 PM   
 By:   John Mullin   (Member)

Cool. I think the 2000s era movie he's talking about is Ang Lee's HULK. But he wound up working with Lee again years later on TAKING WOODSTOCK.

It's a bummer that he didn't get on with Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh that well on THE FRIGHTENERS. I always wondered why they didn't work together again after that.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 31, 2019 - 7:27 PM   
 By:   ddddeeee   (Member)

I think the movie he's referring to is 'The Kingdom'. 'Wanted' might also fit the bill, but he's always been very positive about working on that movie. Peter Berg, the director of The Kingdom, complained that he found film composers arrogant a few years ago, too.

 
 Posted:   Nov 1, 2019 - 12:18 PM   
 By:   sajrocks   (Member)

I think the movie he's referring to is 'The Kingdom'. 'Wanted' might also fit the bill, but he's always been very positive about working on that movie. Peter Berg, the director of The Kingdom, complained that he found film composers arrogant a few years ago, too.

I wasn't going to speculate because I knew it would drive me bonkers, but okay here we go. The article discusses mostly his work (or lack of work) in the horror genre, but if I remember correctly this section was touching on superhero movies. So maybe 'Wanted' or 'Hulk', but the only problem with 'Wanted,' 'Hulk' or even 'The Kingdom' is that he completed those scores and there was no rock guitar riff reveal of any of the main characters. Also the context of the anecdote makes it feel that this was an initial meeting for a movie Elfman wasn't ultimately hired for (hence talking with his agent afterwards as opposed to directly with the filmmaker).

If that's the case, the only film I can remember in my (admittedly really limited) movie going of the late 00s where a major horror or action character is revealed with guitars is 2008's 'Iron Man'. It kind of fits with Elfman's complaint about studio's spotty track record with creating memorable superhero themes in the last decade.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/danny-elfman-does-not-approve-of-studios-scrapping-clas-1820574029
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/justice-league-danny-elfman-hates-reboots-scrap-classic-themes-1059632

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 1, 2019 - 5:27 PM   
 By:   ryankeaveney   (Member)

Film in question has to be REAL STEEL.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 1, 2019 - 7:47 PM   
 By:   GoblinScore   (Member)

Good interview, as always, from the Elfman.
Nice bit about the Frighteners - love the film & score, but no one could've perfected that film. The last sea change act STILL throws me overboard. Aye!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 1, 2019 - 8:10 PM   
 By:   lonzoe1   (Member)

It's a pity he didn't give any refreshing insight about Cruise since he was not only the producer but was also pretty much responsible for Elfman's involvement in Mission: Impossible.

 
 Posted:   Nov 1, 2019 - 10:00 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

Film in question has to be REAL STEEL.

Of of his better efforts this decade!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 3, 2019 - 5:28 AM   
 By:   fommes   (Member)

The "film" version of "Zoom A" is different than the album version, too, despite some of it being dialed out of the film itself. The album version is the only way to get that specific performance.

The album edit of "Zoom A" is just a combination of the first part of the alternate and the second part of the film version, is it not?

The album edit of "Zoom B" is an edit of the film version.

Correct me if I'm wrong of course, but I think the only pieces on CD 1 that are not found on CD 2 are the alternate/album version of "Escape" and the album mix (without overlay) of "Betrayal".

All the tracks with (micro-)edits not included.

Or does the original score album contain any other unique takes?

 
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