Gentlemen, I still don't understand that kind of statement. Both Elfman and Horner got inspiration from Rota. So it's okay as long as it comes from Elfman, but it's not as long as it comes from Horner ? Just explain me, please.
Gentlemen, I still don't understand that kind of statement. Both Elfman and Horner got inspiration from Rota. So it's okay as long as it comes from Elfman, but it's not as long as it comes from Horner ? Just explain me, please.
Did we make such a claim or is it just surmise and rank flummery on your part?
Some of Casper definitely channels Elfman. The direct quotes from Nightmare Before Christmas are jarring.
But then again Horner's madcap riffs (Honey, Casper, et. al) go back as far as something like *batteries not included, which to be fair was two years after Pee Wee (and one before Beetlejuice) but have Horner's stamp all over them (and don't sound much like Pee Wee to me)
Now that this has sold out in physical form, I hope Disney will upload this onto streaming and digital sites, to accompany or replace the prior digital edition.
I hope my order from intermezzo will be fine. Interesting fact, by the way - I bought it for €33, later they increased price (don't look if they still have any copy)
Gentlemen, I still don't understand that kind of statement. Both Elfman and Horner got inspiration from Rota. So it's okay as long as it comes from Elfman, but it's not as long as it comes from Horner ? Just explain me, please.
Sort of like a fan's topsy-turvy / twisted version of 'rules for thee not for me'.
Gentlemen, I still don't understand that kind of statement. Both Elfman and Horner got inspiration from Rota. So it's okay as long as it comes from Elfman, but it's not as long as it comes from Horner ? Just explain me, please.
Where inspiration becomes plagiarism is always going to be a blurry line.
To me, twenty-five consecutive, unchanged notes from Amarcord plopped into Honey, I Shrunk the Kids crosses that line.
Where inspiration becomes plagiarism is always going to be a blurry line.
To me, twenty-five consecutive, unchanged notes from Amarcord plopped into Honey, I Shrunk the Kids crosses that line.
In 2019 I had a rare opportunity to talk to Horner's primary music editor, Jim Henrikson. I specifically asked him about this score and what he told me was the following:
Horner only used "Amarcord" in Honey I Shrunk The Kids because the film was temp-scored with it, and Horner's reaction to that was essentially "You really like this? Okay...but if you want me to use this, you know you have to license it"
I've never seen the cue sheet for the score, but apparently it's on there (and also why it's in the film's end credits) - but the "Powerhouse" melody was not and the cue sheet had to be revised to include it (which is why it's NOT in the film's end credits)
This is also what Henrikson told me:
Disney was not sued by the Nino Rota estate, but rather by WB because they blew the Elfman channeling Rota similarity to Horner's score out of proportion.
In 2019 I had a rare opportunity to talk to Horner's primary music editor, Jim Henrikson. I specifically asked him about this score and what he told me was the following:
Horner only used "Amarcord" in Honey I Shrunk The Kids because the film was temp-scored with it, and Horner's reaction to that was essentially "You really like this? Okay...but if you want me to use this, you know you have to license it"
While the story I heard on this (from somebody in the film music industry whom I probably shouldn't drag into this) was not nearly so sympathetic to Horner, I don't claim to know the truth, and certainly Mr. Henrikson would know better than I.
Either way, as a creative choice (by whoever made it), it's certainly very different from "influence."
In no way am I debating influence versus plagarism or whatever the case might be, I'm just saying the choice to use that music isn't as salacious as film music industry people might want to make it sound is all, especially if that source is going to be using certain terms like theft or what have you.
To me, Henrikson's recount of what happened was just a plain, matter-of-fact sort of situation of 'follow the temp' and the outside world isn't always privy to these details so a lot of people tend to fill in the blanks and not in a very positive way.
Horner spoke at a college class a few years later and talked about having to tell the filmmakers on Glory that he could write something more like the temp but that they would get sued. I can’t help but think that he was informed by his earlier experiences with this film.
And Horner got better at channeling Rota. This score had to walk so Casper could run.
I remember reading that they incorrectly thought Powerhouse was in the public domain. But maybe I'm just dreaming this up....
Make of this what you will, but Henrikson's recollection of the situation was only about "Amarcord", as he didn't mention 'Powerhouse' at all. It would make sense if they thought of it that way given the kind of usage it had right up to and including "Tiny Toon Adventures" which aired on TV after Honey was released.
The direct quotes from Nightmare Before Christmas are jarring.
Direct quotes? jarring? I’ve been fan of both composers since the nineties. Have the scores and subsequent expanded editions. Love Casper more than Nightmare Before Christmas and never heard any “direct quote”, much less a “jarring” reference.
The direct quotes from Nightmare Before Christmas are jarring.
Direct quotes? jarring? I’ve been fan of both composers since the nineties. Have the scores and subsequent expanded editions. Love Casper more than Nightmare Before Christmas and never heard any “direct quote”, much less a “jarring” reference.
I need to check which track on Casper (on holiday and not able to check until later) but Horner absolutely uses the opening string line and few bars of “What’s This?” in Casper.
