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 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 9:29 AM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

Personally I'm not interested in this release. But why should I question or dismiss someone (or his passion, his ambition) who thinks it's worth the effort?

Depressingly, those that have most strongly attacked Mr. O'Callaghan's effort, and I know there's one, but suspect there's another, happen to work for a company that's just released an orchestral re-recording of another major Goldsmith score and this release has stepped on it's toes. As with so many things human, it all comes down to money. O'Callaghan has created and marketed a CD release outside of the establishment, and at least two in the establishment don't like it.

Oh, and about that orchestral re-recording that will ship next week? I'm not excited about it and won't be ordering a copy. I'm happy with the Intrada remastering, didn't even get the La La Land release.

 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 9:45 AM   
 By:   The Mutant   (Member)

Oh, this is gonna get good...

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 10:05 AM   
 By:   Tadlow   (Member)

Personally I'm not interested in this release. But why should I question or dismiss someone (or his passion, his ambition) who thinks it's worth the effort?

Depressingly, those that have most strongly attacked Mr. O'Callaghan's effort, and I know there's one, but suspect there's another, happen to work for a company that's just released an orchestral re-recording of another major Goldsmith score and this release has stepped on it's toes. As with so many things human, it all comes down to money. O'Callaghan has created and marketed a CD release outside of the establishment, and at least two in the establishment don't like it.

Oh, and about that orchestral re-recording that will ship next week? I'm not excited about it and won't be ordering a copy. I'm happy with the Intrada remastering, didn't even get the La La Land release.


The above is rather strange and downright ill informed and actually very hurtful! What do you mean? Are you referring to Tadlow Music and The Blue Max? When last I checked it was still a one man company....me! So who is the other person you suspect works for Tadlow...unless you mean my long suffering wife? I applaud what has been done with Planet of the Apes and have never said otherwise..but, I have said it would have been nice to have been asked to provide an orchestra for this project as would have been fun to do....but I totally know everything there is to know about budgetary restrictions. So any new recording is great. And finally if you are happy with the 50 year old recording of Blue Max...fine for you and fine by me ....thankfully some 1500 people so far don't seem to have the same view. But for pity sake if you are going throw stones at least have the courtesy to name names. Or maybe your posting has nothing to do with Tadlow Music or The Blue Max?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 10:23 AM   
 By:   Tadlow   (Member)

Personally I'm not interested in this release. But why should I question or dismiss someone (or his passion, his ambition) who thinks it's worth the effort?

Depressingly, those that have most strongly attacked Mr. O'Callaghan's effort, and I know there's one, but suspect there's another, happen to work for a company that's just released an orchestral re-recording of another major Goldsmith score and this release has stepped on it's toes. As with so many things human, it all comes down to money. O'Callaghan has created and marketed a CD release outside of the establishment, and at least two in the establishment don't like it.

Oh, and about that orchestral re-recording that will ship next week? I'm not excited about it and won't be ordering a copy. I'm happy with the Intrada remastering, didn't even get the La La Land release.


And as I announced Blue Max release on January 5....nobody has stepped on anyone's toes!!!!

 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 10:43 AM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

Yes, it was ill-informed and I'm sorry that it was hurtful. Going back and reviewing every page of this thread, not a happy task, I thought you'd come back and said something that it turns out was someone else. I've become very suspicious of the motives of some here, especially those that hide behind suggestive names. Anyway, I bare your re-recording no ill will, which is why it remained unmentioned by name. This discussion has really gotten me mad, and perhaps I need to ignore this thread, at least until I come back with my comments on the CD it's supposed to be about. Now that I know Tadlow is a one man operation, I have as much respect for you as I do for Mr. O'Callaghan.

 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 10:44 AM   
 By:   The Mutant   (Member)

Probably a good idea, dude.

Let them speak for themselves and get out with your sanity intact.

 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 10:48 AM   
 By:   soundtrackmusic   (Member)

Personally I'm not interested in this release. But why should I question or dismiss someone (or his passion, his ambition) who thinks it's worth the effort?

Depressingly, those that have most strongly attacked Mr. O'Callaghan's effort, and I know there's one, but suspect there's another, happen to work for a company that's just released an orchestral re-recording of another major Goldsmith score and this release has stepped on it's toes. As with so many things human, it all comes down to money. O'Callaghan has created and marketed a CD release outside of the establishment, and at least two in the establishment don't like it.

Oh, and about that orchestral re-recording that will ship next week? I'm not excited about it and won't be ordering a copy. I'm happy with the Intrada remastering, didn't even get the La La Land release.


Oh dear, are you married to Mr. O'Callaghan? Or in any other way related?

Because, if you're not, there's really no explanation for your overheated, and in fact rather amusing, reaction to very moderate criticism.

 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 10:54 AM   
 By:   soundtrackmusic   (Member)



General whining? I see only a few lines of criticism here and there.
Mr. O'Callaghan himself has written an ENTIRE BOOK of criticisms and complaints about every CD of Planet of the Apes that's ever been released.


Well put. Clearly, it's coming down to friends of Carlotta vs. enemies of Carlotta.

Just saying. Just joking. ;

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 11:01 AM   
 By:   Tadlow   (Member)

Yes, it was ill-informed and I'm sorry that it was hurtful. Going back and reviewing every page of this thread, not a happy task, I thought you'd come back and said something that it turns out was someone else. I've become very suspicious of the motives of some here, especially those that hide behind suggestive names. Anyway, I bare your re-recording no ill will, which is why it remained unmentioned by name. This discussion has really gotten me mad, and perhaps I need to ignore this thread, at least until I come back with my comments on the CD it's supposed to be about. Now that I know Tadlow is a one man operation, I have as much respect for you as I do for Mr. O'Callaghan.

I will always be the first to encourage the appreciation of film music through new recordings to a newer generation...not just to 60 plus old farts like me!

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 11:01 AM   
 By:   Tadlow   (Member)

Yes, it was ill-informed and I'm sorry that it was hurtful. Going back and reviewing every page of this thread, not a happy task, I thought you'd come back and said something that it turns out was someone else. I've become very suspicious of the motives of some here, especially those that hide behind suggestive names. Anyway, I bare your re-recording no ill will, which is why it remained unmentioned by name. This discussion has really gotten me mad, and perhaps I need to ignore this thread, at least until I come back with my comments on the CD it's supposed to be about. Now that I know Tadlow is a one man operation, I have as much respect for you as I do for Mr. O'Callaghan.

I will always be the first to encourage the appreciation of film music through new recordings to a newer generation...not just to 60 plus old farts like me!

 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 11:02 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

It's worth it to say thanks to Rory for apologizing. This message board is increasingly uninteresting to me because of all the vitriol passed around here, so it's refreshing for someone to walk something back.

The absurd level of negativity around these parts reminds me of this old joke: Academic politics are so vicious because the stakes are so low. If it's true for academics, it's doubly true for at least some fans and hobbyists.

I'm not likely to purchase this myself, as I would purchase an orchestral re-recording - though never say never. But I completely understand the rationale and respect both the effort and the desire to shine a new light on this work. The project has not earned the negativity displayed here, but that's true for every thread that blows up here.

 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 11:06 AM   
 By:   soundtrackmusic   (Member)

This message board is increasingly uninteresting to me because of all the vitriol passed around here

Seriously. Quote the vitriol in this thread.

 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 11:08 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

Having recorded a suite from Planet of the Apes with live orchestra quite a few years ago including Mixing Bowl....yes it is difficult music but actually not overly difficult for real orchestra to perform....and actually great fun to do.

James - I don't recall this suite's availability. Can you or anyone let me know where it appeared? I'd love to hear it.

 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 11:09 AM   
 By:   soundtrackmusic   (Member)

Seriously. Quote the vitriol in this thread.

 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 11:11 AM   
 By:   soundtrackmusic   (Member)

There's been but moderate criticism of the concept of replacing a score for large orchestral forces with some synths and then some. What's VITRIOLIC about that? Please elaborate!

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 11:15 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

But I completely understand the rationale and respect both the effort and the desire to shine a new light on this work. The project has not earned the negativity displayed here, but that's true for every thread that blows up here.

The negatively here has been mostly constructive though, or at least thoughtful. For example, I now have a small issue with the concept of this new recording "shining new light on the score". Is re-launching it into the market place as a synthetic work really the right way to preserve Planet Of The Apes? What if somebody hears this recording who's never heard Goldsmith's score before? Their first impression would be of a wholly different kind of work. They may instantly brand it "cheap". They may wonder what all the fuss was about. And that would be sad.

When is a re-imagining the wrong kind of re-imagining?

Just a thought for debate (I don't work for Tadlow).

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 11:24 AM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

You just heard from O'Callaghan? Well, that puts a certain, how shall we say, color to your posts about this.

And what would that be exactly? I've been in an email exchange with O'Callaghan for many months now, mostly about the production of PLANET OF THE APES and the various bits of information he's uncovered in the Apjac files at Loyola Marymount University. The movie is my favorite so I find this stuff endlessly fascinating. I guess we've become friends, but his CD project wasn't something I was all that keen on when I first heard about it either. My inital reaction was exactly the same as some others here: it should be done with organic instruments. (And I warned him that this release was going to be attacked at the level of "Oh, this is just some crap someone's done in their garage," and sure as hell that's come true.) But I do think it was quite admirable of him to have actually pulled off something he felt needed to be done, even if he had to do it in the only way practical to him, which unfortunately didn't include the hiring of an entire sixty member orchestra. He told me, and I think most here will not agree at all with him, that the big motivating factor for what he's done is the he feared the score was becoming forgotten. Everyone who loves this score should ponder that a while.

As for my comments in this thread, I'm only reacting to those that are being especially snarky and ridiculously negative. Where have I attacked anyone who have simply said this doesn't interest them and they're not going to order it? But those that say things like this CD would make "Goldsmith roll in his grave," well, just as a Goldsmith fan I think that has to be rebuked because I feel it's a dominution of Goldsmith's own character in life. Then there's this comment: Mr. O'Callaghan himself has written an ENTIRE BOOK of criticisms and complaints about every CD of Planet of the Apes that's ever been released. Did this person actually buy and read O'Callaghan's book? I have to think not because the book is 262 pages and the pages that compare and contrast the various releases of the OST number 12 and appear near the end of the book, and in fact do a service to those who are collectors of this score, as someone else who posted here proves.

I ordered this CD from O'Callaghan on Monday and he's told me it's already shipped, which is better service than I get from SAE. When I get it I plan on giving it an honest critique right here in this very same thread. Being as critical a person as I am, and this being my all-time favorite score, I'll bet I'll have some negative things to say, which should make some here very happy I'm sure. One good thing about the snarkiness, and why I actually love being attacked is -- it keeps this thread up there, so... by all means, keep it up.


Just to be clear here because you're responding to my post: I have said nothing in this thread whatsoever about this release. I have been reading, watching your endless cheerleading, and then finally commenting when you said you'd heard from the man who did the recording and bragging how it was already in the black, as if giving your middle finger to everyone who's posted here. I personally have attacked no one, least of all you, and I haven't really seen anyone really attacking anyone except, perhaps, you. I don't find much snark here. People listened to samples and made comments. I suspect you know that happens with orchestral recordings too.

But, I'll weigh in on just one little thing not having to do with the actual recording but with the cover of the CD: Since I've never heard of the producer of this CD, I'm a little put off that he would take a front cover credit in the same size and just under the composer of the film score. Kind of a first, really.

And since this is your favorite film ever you might be interested in the upcoming Heritage Auction in which they are auctioning off every iteration of the script, from Mr. Serling through the scripts where they didn't include the last thirty pages, to the ones that had the last thirty pages but upside down, to the shooting script. Quite a lot.

 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 11:27 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

Just to be clear, spymaster, I said I respect the desire to shine a new light on the score. I'm not addressing the merits of the recording, which I've not heard beyond the samples, so not claiming that it is or is not shining a new light, just that it seems to be at least part of the intention. Which I respect.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 11:29 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

Just to be clear, spymaster, I said I respect the desire to shine a new light on the score. I'm not addressing the merits of the recording, which I've not heard beyond the samples, so not claiming that it is or is not shining a new light, just that it seems to be at least part of the intention. Which I respect.

We all respect the intention!

 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2016 - 11:33 AM   
 By:   soundtrackmusic   (Member)

Just to be clear, spymaster, I said I respect the desire to shine a new light on the score. I'm not addressing the merits of the recording

Sorry, that won't do. You're criticizing the alleged vitriol here, but when asked about it, you chicken out.

You should at least MAN UP about that. Don't chicken out.

How does moderate criticism amount to vitriol? Please elaborate.

 
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