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 Posted:   Nov 11, 2023 - 5:20 PM   
 By:   Avatarded   (Member)

I don’t care about having the identical (bad) performance to the film or original album, if something that’s better musically can be achieved

Yavar


Also, it's not as if the bad notes were intentional, so sticking to that wouldn't really make sense anyway. It may be part of its overall charm, but was entirely unintended.

 
 Posted:   Nov 11, 2023 - 5:54 PM   
 By:   Josh   (Member)

So stoked for this! Such a fun score. I can't wait to hear it with improved sound quality.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 11, 2023 - 9:54 PM   
 By:   NO NAME   (Member)

That’s what was done with Superman IV for album, IIRC. Modern tech used to splice together parts of different takes for a better performance. Would be great news if they managed the same for this. I don’t care about having the identical (bad) performance to the film or original album, if something that’s better musically can be achieved.

Great job on that awesome soundtrack trailer Joe!

Yavar


What's the difference between this one and the BSX edition ?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 11, 2023 - 10:03 PM   
 By:   Avatarded   (Member)



What's the difference between this one and the BSX edition ?


From the YouTube video above, it's obvious that the recording is from a completely different source compared to the BSX / GNP albums.

-vastly superior sound
-evidence of the mistakes in the brass being corrected to some degree
-it's labeled as a 2 disc set.

 
 Posted:   Nov 12, 2023 - 3:06 AM   
 By:   Bus-Punk   (Member)

What's the difference between this one and the BSX edition ?

The BSX was from an LP transfer. Quite a good one, but still quite muddy sounding. From the sample posted, this sounds like it’s from a much higher quality source, possibly the Masters, though we won’t know until next week. It’s also expanded. I’m assuming disc 2 might be the original album version, with that flubbed playing/track, and disc 1 the remastered full score. Fingers crossed!

 
 Posted:   Nov 12, 2023 - 3:21 AM   
 By:   Ian J.   (Member)

If there were flubbed notes in a piece, I'd still like to have that version as an extra, alongside a main programme with a 'fix'.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 12, 2023 - 3:49 AM   
 By:   Prince Damian   (Member)

Sounds really good. Did they rerecord it on the quiet.smile

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 12, 2023 - 3:53 AM   
 By:   Broughtfan   (Member)

Something that just occurred to me was the possibility of the errors either being in the score manuscript or made by the copyist when preparing parts (remember this was 1980 when all of this stuff was handwritten/brass transposed likely). If while listening to a recording of the first reading comparing this with the "take" if the mistakes occurred in the same bars it was likely a copying error. Having said this, I'm guessing that David Newman and Horner would have made the corrections before having another "go," but only if time allowed it (as these cues take several minutes to record). They may have also intended to revisit certain cues (because they did get some decent performances on certain cues) but simply didn't have that luxury (because of limited budget/time to record the score). Also, Horner probably didn't have money for a music editor in the budget, someone who could have spliced parts of one cue/better take into another.

Personally, I applaud those (what I've understood to be) student players, people who didn't regularly sightread film music, as some of those cues were quite difficult to play.

 
 Posted:   Nov 12, 2023 - 4:12 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

No Flubbed Notes= No Sale!

 
 Posted:   Nov 12, 2023 - 4:19 AM   
 By:   spielboy   (Member)

cant A.I. fix those things today?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 12, 2023 - 5:15 AM   
 By:   neumation   (Member)

Something that just occurred to me was the possibility of the errors either being in the score manuscript or made by the copyist when preparing parts (remember this was 1980 when all of this stuff was handwritten/brass transposed likely). If while listening to a recording of the first reading comparing this with the "take" if the mistakes occurred in the same bars it was likely a copying error. Having said this, I'm guessing that David Newman and Horner would have made the corrections before having another "go," but only if time allowed it (as these cues take several minutes to record). They may have also intended to revisit certain cues (because they did get some decent performances on certain cues) but simply didn't have that luxury (because of limited budget/time to record the score). Also, Horner probably didn't have money for a music editor in the budget, someone who could have spliced parts of one cue/better take into another.

Personally, I applaud those (what I've understood to be) student players, people who didn't regularly sightread film music, as some of those cues were quite difficult to play.


Horner over-wrote for brass. The trumpets in “Cowboy and the Jackers” play for six pages without break and run out of air. Even pro players would have struggled with that. I don’t think the players were all students, just nonunion, so not talent of the same caliber as Hollywood session musicians. Horner also notated the music with extensive subdivisions, often at slow tempi, which is a little awkward to read. I can post some examples. The pages are crammed with notes. It could have been notated more clearly to be sightread easier.

There was only budget for like two or three takes (if that)and little rehersal. You get what you get for that price.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 12, 2023 - 5:23 AM   
 By:   Kevin Costigan   (Member)

.
There was only budget for like two or three takes (if that)and little rehersal. You get what you get for that price.


This makes sense, but weren't "pickups" a thing back then? They could have had enough time to replay the few bars that were previously imperfect and edit them in?

Or maybe not in 1980?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 12, 2023 - 8:52 AM   
 By:   lars.blondeel   (Member)

I find it so odd that he singled out “The Hand” as one he didn’t want released.
Like, is it any more embarrassing than Humanoids from the Deep or Deadly Blessing???


He apparently didn't want Deadly Blessing either.



Well hopefully we will get The Hand on CD also!


Yes, and 'Concerto For Shakuhachi' aka 'Streets Of Fire' rejected smile

 
 Posted:   Nov 12, 2023 - 10:53 PM   
 By:   JeffM   (Member)

Every time this thread pops up I keep thinking that it says “Battle of the Network Stars”.
I’m guessing that would sound quite a bit different than the intended topic.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 12, 2023 - 11:39 PM   
 By:   Adam Cousins   (Member)

I find it so odd that he singled out “The Hand” as one he didn’t want released.
Like, is it any more embarrassing than Humanoids from the Deep or Deadly Blessing???


He apparently didn't want Deadly Blessing either.



Well hopefully we will get The Hand on CD also!


Yes, and 'Concerto For Shakuhachi' aka 'Streets Of Fire' rejected smile


Good heavens people! Can we not just focus on what we DO having incoming and be grateful for that!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 13, 2023 - 12:19 AM   
 By:   moolik   (Member)

I will never understand the quote: " Be thankful for what's being released "...and people shouldn't express their wishes .This is what its ( mostly) all about on this forum and the labels rely on the customers wishes.
I mean people produce these CDs...people pay money for these CDs.So it's business connected with a passion.Which all professions should be to be successful.
It's great that labels are releasing and producing all these scores...but sometimes I have the feeling that you have to be grateful and humble and on your knees that one can purchase some consumer productssmile

If its only to preserve film music and not making any profit out of it..than call me wrong.Fair enough

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 13, 2023 - 2:55 AM   
 By:   Broughtfan   (Member)

Something that just occurred to me was the possibility of the errors either being in the score manuscript or made by the copyist when preparing parts (remember this was 1980 when all of this stuff was handwritten/brass transposed likely). If while listening to a recording of the first reading comparing this with the "take" if the mistakes occurred in the same bars it was likely a copying error. Having said this, I'm guessing that David Newman and Horner would have made the corrections before having another "go," but only if time allowed it (as these cues take several minutes to record). They may have also intended to revisit certain cues (because they did get some decent performances on certain cues) but simply didn't have that luxury (because of limited budget/time to record the score). Also, Horner probably didn't have money for a music editor in the budget, someone who could have spliced parts of one cue/better take into another.

Personally, I applaud those (what I've understood to be) student players, people who didn't regularly sightread film music, as some of those cues were quite difficult to play.


Horner over-wrote for brass. The trumpets in “Cowboy and the Jackers” play for six pages without break and run out of air. Even pro players would have struggled with that. I don’t think the players were all students, just nonunion, so not talent of the same caliber as Hollywood session musicians. Horner also notated the music with extensive subdivisions, often at slow tempi, which is a little awkward to read. I can post some examples. The pages are crammed with notes. It could have been notated more clearly to be sightread easier.

There was only budget for like two or three takes (if that)and little rehersal. You get what you get for that price.


Being a former brass player I can relate to what you wrote above. I recall Krull also has a lot of fast sounding music in slow tempi, which can be a mind trip to sightread (yet, LSO, apparently, handled it no problem). Also, from what I remember, the end title seems to be a lot better performed than the main title, which indicates to me that the players were much more settled in, accustomed to the musical demands expected by that time. I remember talking to session players (brass performers) in the late nineties about memorable sessions and it was surprising how often ST: TWOK and Silverado were mentioned, the former because it was such difficult music, the latter because many of them had worked with Bruce Broughton when he regularly scored TV episodes at CBS, MGM and Universal, some going back to the mid seventies when Bruce was just getting his career going. Several of the people I talked with had also worked with Horner on Wolfen (which may have been Horner's first big session with a Hollywood session orchestra).

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 13, 2023 - 10:11 AM   
 By:   Zeno Cosini   (Member)

I`am just listening to the old GNP Crescendo CD with BATTLE coupled with HUMANOIDS. It is from 2001...
And it's really delightful to listen to the score after some years. Sounds like an early demo version of The Wrath of Khan including some echoes of ST - The Motion Picture and others. Really very enjoyful, fresh and entertaining. If there is an upgrade in the sound, this will be a must have for me...!!!

 
 Posted:   Nov 13, 2023 - 11:30 AM   
 By:   OneBuckFilms   (Member)

I`am just listening to the old GNP Crescendo CD with BATTLE coupled with HUMANOIDS. It is from 2001...
And it's really delightful to listen to the score after some years. Sounds like an early demo version of The Wrath of Khan including some echoes of ST - The Motion Picture and others. Really very enjoyful, fresh and entertaining. If there is an upgrade in the sound, this will be a must have for me...!!!


I have been doing the same for BBTS from GNP, along with the recent Intrada release of Humanoids from the Deep.

Based on the video teaser by Joe Sikoryak on YouTube and Humanoids, I'm expecting good things from this one.

When Humanoids was released by Intrada, I had a strong inkling this would see BBTS expanded and remastered, assuming the tapes were in a similar location and condition (same studio, era etc.).

I didn't expect it this quickly after Humanoids, but I cannot wait to order this.

A holy grail expansion for me for the longest time.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 13, 2023 - 1:33 PM   
 By:   jwb1   (Member)

Didn't Buysoundtrax get a lot of flak when they did this as people said they went against Horner's wishes to release this score as he is not happy with it?

Are we gonna do that with Intrada now too?

 
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