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Varese gave me permission to get the master from Tim Greiving on Tuesday. I'm going to email Varese about this right away because I too double checked and noticed that the digital versions had the wrong timing for that track. I had really hoped it was a simple typo on (an earlier draft of) the packaging. Hopefully the CD itself matches the digital master I got.
Yavar
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These digital platforms list the running time of the actual files they got from the music label, so a typo made on the physical CD packaging wouldn't be an explanation for this here. The actual length of that track on the digital release is what's listed. You can verify by listening to it on one of the free ones like youtube or soundcloud.
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I know that; that's why I just emailed Varese. When I noticed on the packaging upon seeing it the first time a few days ago, I figured/hoped it was a typo because it didn't match the length of the track I had. But now seeing that the digital platforms list the incorrect timing, I realize there might be an *actual* problem (with them, hopefully not the CD version).
EDIT: My cohost Clark brought up another possibility: maybe the film version of "The Key" is shorter than the album version, but the (earlier?) master I have added "Empty Stadium" to the longer album version of it instead? We are looking into what's in the film itself, timing-wise. This may just be a case of me receiving an older version of the master, which itself didn't reflect the film or something.
Yavar
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Thanks so much for clearing it up, Neil!
Yavar
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Sorry, I'm a little confused.
If the director chose not to use 44 seconds of Jerry's cue, why would you also cut that material out of the main program version?
Entire cues that were dropped from the final film appear in the main program, so why would material from within a cue that didn't happen to be used not be restored?
And how did Yavar receive a master where track 10 runs for 4:16 long?
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Sorry, I'm a little confused.
If the director chose not to use 44 seconds of Jerry's cue, why would you also cut that material out of the main program version?
It wasn't cut. Neil wrote: "The album version of "The Key" uses a section that was dropped from the film takes for about 44 seconds." So to present the accurate *film take*, that section of music was nonexistent. In other words the section was re-performed without that cut bit, for the film.
Entire cues that were dropped from the final film appear in the main program, so why would material from within a cue that didn't happen to be used not be restored?
Because the album version of "The Key" was an earlier take before that section was removed from the composition and re-performed for the film take.
And how did Yavar receive a master where track 10 runs for 4:16 long?
That should be clear from what I wrote above -- Tim (after Varese gave permission) shared the (OLD) version of the master HE was given to write the notes, like a year ago (that's my supposition anyway). Obviously the final master got updated since then. For what it's worth the master he shared with me didn't even have the final three "album version" tracks! (It was only 21.) So I'm guessing that before it was decided to add those to the program, they went with the most complete version of "The Key" (compositionally) even though it was an earlier take and not the one used in the actual film. In the future I'll just ask Varese for the master directly, to make sure I have the most up to date one.
Yavar
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Simple...the film uses takes 14 and 17. The album uses takes 14, 13 and 17. Since take 13 is edited into the album and not the film and take 14 has a quiet ending and 17 has a clean beginning it was clear that this section was decided to be dropped from the film and the cues are presented as heard in the film, albeit with a pull up so you don't have to sit through 44 seconds of silence.
AH! Now I understand - that makes perfect sense now. Thank you.
There was an early master that did some things I hadn't planned and my guess is that was mistakenly sent out.
Oof, that's awkward.
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Does anybody know what formats are available when buying the digital version from Varese? I'm missing where that information is located.
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A fantastic score. Thanks Varese for delivering an expanded edition. If I was forced to make a top 10 Goldsmith list, Rudy would probably be there.
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Nope. You'll have to forgive me, it's been a year or so since I cut this. The album version of "The Key" uses a section that was dropped from the film takes for about 44 seconds. So instead of presenting 44 seconds of silence we pulled up that section. So even with the extra material, it times out a little shorter.
...the film uses takes 14 and 17. The album uses takes 14, 13 and 17. Since take 13 is edited into the album and not the film and take 14 has a quiet ending and 17 has a clean beginning it was clear that this section was decided to be dropped from the film and the cues are presented as heard in the film, albeit with a pull up so you don't have to sit through 44 seconds of silence.
Obviously this is a first world problem and can be fixed by anyone with some rudimentary audio editing, but in case it might make a difference for future releases, here's my consumer feedback for what it's worth, even though the program you edited for Varese is technically correct:
My strong preference is to at least be able to simply program a complete-as-possible version of a score, compositionally. So even if that "The Key" take/insert wasn't used in the film, I want it in that program. And I also obviously want the cue "Empty Stadium". Unfortunately on this edition, that brief cue crossfades (though subtly) on the same track into the shorter film version of "The Key", so it isn't possible to program both the 22 second "Empty Stadium" and 44 second section of "The Key" (omitted in the film) into the same listening experience, without an audio editor.
If "Empty Stadium" had been presented discretely on its own (even though I realize that would mean a 22 second track, which bothers some folks), then one could easily swap out the longer album version of "The Key" for the shorter film version, into the main program. OR the other solution that would have made me happier would be to include the longer version of "The Key" in the main program (and the shorter version could be moved to the bonus section and marked "film version")... because that would be consistent with the fact that the main program *also* includes a few cues of music which went unused in the film! Those weren't relegated to the bonus section, but in two cases were even combined in tracks with cues which are in the film.
Just stating my preference in case the issue comes up again for the future; I don't mean to nitpick this very fine release, and I'm glad the longer album version was at least included at the end, so that none of Goldsmith's composition was excluded from this edition!
The closest situation to this one that I can think of is the GNP Crescendo expanded album of Star Trek: Insurrection, which included a shorter film version of the cue "Children's Story" (combined with two other cues, incidentally)... while the original GNP Insurrection album had a lengthier composition under that title (as its own discrete cue). Since there wasn't room on the single expanded disc and GNP didn't want to go to 2CDs for one alternate, that longer composition was just omitted entirely! And I had already given away my original Insurrection album by the time this was discovered... it was really a bummer that nothing was said about this in advance.
So yeah, I'm glad that Rudy was a shorter score and there was room to include all the unique assemblies from the original album. But for what it's worth, to me it still could have been executed in a more ideal way, with either of the two options I presented above.
Yavar
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Yes, and I absolutely understand why that was done. But if worried about how things were presented in the film, why not relegate all the unused cues to the bonus section at the end too? IMO, if they were included in the C&C main program, so should that 44 seconds of "The Key" omitted from the film.
The film's the film, and the soundtrack album is the soundtrack album, and to me the right decision was made regarding all the other short bits of music that went unused in the film such as "For Father" and "Ready Champ?" -- those 44 seconds should have been treated the same way, and the shorter film version included as the bonus track IMO.
Yavar
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