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To be honest its not the 24-bit versus 16-bit question that's going to make the difference, it's the sampling rate.
Whether you're 16-bit, 20-bit or 24-bit, if the sampling rate is still 44.1Khz so you still have to roll off the same frequencies that get rolled off for CD.
So, for me, the question that matters isn't 16-bit or 24-bit, it's what's the sample rate?
Unless the sample rate is significantly better than 44.1KHz, then it would be a waste of time buying the download as well as the CD, as they won't sound any different. Just get one or the other.
Cheers
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To be honest its not the 24-bit versus 16-bit question that's going to make the difference, it's the sampling rate.
Whether you're 16-bit, 20-bit or 24-bit, if the sampling rate is still 44.1Khz so you still have to roll off the same frequencies that get rolled off for CD.
So, for me, the question that matters isn't 16-bit or 24-bit, it's what's the sample rate?
Unless the sample rate is significantly better than 44.1KHz, then it would be a waste of time buying the download as well as the CD, as they won't sound any different. Just get one or the other.
Cheers
Not necessarily so, bit depth is also important. The sampling rate is how often a signal is read and the bit depth how much information a read sample holds. Either way increases the resolution.
You can easily check the importance of either by just reducing either to make it very obvious: you can reduce the bit depth on a .wav file and you will quickly hear a difference, and you can reduce the sampling rate you will quickly hear a difference.
It's somewhat analog to frame rates and resolution (on a movie or TV screen). You can increase the resolution of the image, and you can increase the frame rate, or both. In one case you'd the film would get a much sharper image, in the other case the movement would be much smoother.
(Note: now I am not saying this will be "audible" in RIO CONCHOS, that Intrada release has sounded great in any incarnation so far. I'm quite happy with the last CD release.)
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I'm so glad I'm satisfied with mp3 quality - all this tech talk makes my ears hurt!
I will certainly give a listen to this fabulous re-recording - Jerry's first or second wasn't it?
I have all the other editions of both this and the OST, such a great score and with the best bonus imaginable - The Artist Who Did Not Want To Paint is one of Jerry's finest single-movement works. My favorite part of The Agony and The Ecstasy.
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Other Intrada rerecordings available at HD Tracks (Ivanhoe and Dial M For Murder) are 96kHz and 24bit.
They were recorded when 24-bit recording consoles existed, which is not the case for Rio Conchos.
Exactly. And RIO CONCHOS was a good sounding recording. I don't think there is much to gain by "upgrading" RIO CONCHOS from CD sound, but as long as Intrada is now releasing it as download, might as well go for it. Great option for those who don't have it so far. The album is a must have for Goldsmith fans.
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Not necessarily so, bit depth is also important. The sampling rate is how often a signal is read and the bit depth how much information a read sample holds. Either way increases the resolution.
Hi Nic, I'm not saying bit rate is not important, I'm just saying improving the bit depth from 16-bit to 24-bit is not as important as improving the sampling rate from 44.1KHz to 48KHz or better, because, as you know, its sampling rate, not the bit depth, that governs what frequencies have to be rolled off from the source recording.
That said, 48KHz is probably sufficiently better than 44.1KHz to be plenty good enough. 44.1KHz gives bare minimum headroom over human audible frequencies. 48KHz allows enough to include all the audible frequencies plus a bit more, without crunching the top end of the audible range.
So, yes, once you're 48KHz or above, then I'd say focus on the bit depth.
But I'd say the first priority in terms of presenting any improvement to CD sound is to improve from 44.1KHz to 48KHz or better to make sure we're not crunching the top end frequencies.
Cheers
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May 4th can't arrive quickly enough.
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dp
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A must have, disc and download.
Having never heard the LSO recording of The Artist who Did Not Want to Paint, and also esteeming the Rio Conchos original score from the Kritzerland/La-La Land releases, this is an easy one.
It's been awhile since my last direct Intrada order anyway. Hmmm? Maybe Howard the Duck, too?
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Posted: |
May 3, 2021 - 5:35 PM
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By: |
.
(Member)
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If you start on this hi-res journey of upgrading your re-recording CDs, you'd better have plenty of money to spare because there will be HUNDREDS in due course from Intrada, Marco Polo, Tribute Film Classics, Silva, Tadlow, Prometheus, Decca, Sony, Varese, Telarc, Chandos etc etc etc.
If you have a very substantial collection of film music re-recordings, it could cost you THOUSANDS to replace them WITH THE SAME RECORDINGS YOU ALREADY HAVE, for maybe some barely discernible audio gains for which you would likely need to invest even more cash to upgrade your audio equipment. It could cost hundreds just to replace all your Intrada CD re-recordings alone with hi-res downloads of the same stuff.
But it won't stop there. We will likely then be tempted by not just re-buying re-recordings, but also by the original soundtracks and old albums in so-called hi-res. Will you ignore the hi-res releases of all the John Williams soundtracks in luscious hi-res? Would we turn our backs on a "hi-res mastered" Dracula or Raiders of the Lost Ark? No doubt we'll get "hi-res" versions of Goldsmith's Star Trek TMP and Total Recall. Maybe Varese will give us a "hi-res" Spartacus. And why not? Some of us are already re-buying old, dreadful-sounding old material like Inchon, now in apparent "hi-res".
Exciting times ahead.
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If you start on this hi-res journey of upgrading your re-recording CDs, you'd better have plenty of money to spare because there will be HUNDREDS in due course from Intrada, Marco Polo, Tribute Film Classics, Silva, Tadlow, Prometheus, Decca, Sony, Varese, Telarc, Chandos etc etc etc.
If you have a very substantial collection of film music re-recordings, it could cost you THOUSANDS to replace them WITH THE SAME RECORDINGS YOU ALREADY HAVE, for maybe some barely discernible audio gains for which you would likely need to invest even more cash to upgrade your audio equipment. It could cost hundreds just to replace all your Intrada CD re-recordings alone with hi-res downloads of the same stuff.
But it won't stop there. We will likely then be tempted by not just re-buying re-recordings, but also by the original soundtracks and old albums in so-called hi-res. Will you ignore the hi-res releases of all the John Williams soundtracks in luscious hi-res? Would we turn our backs on a "hi-res mastered" Dracula or Raiders of the Lost Ark? No doubt we'll get "hi-res" versions of Goldsmith's Star Trek TMP and Total Recall. Maybe Varese will give us a "hi-res" Spartacus. And why not? Some of us are already re-buying old, dreadful-sounding old material like Inchon, now in apparent "hi-res".
Exciting times ahead.
I agree with all of this except it will never come to that. Does anyone really think Inchon is selling like hot cakes for $30 on iTunes? I mean come on, what a joke.
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For me I’m just happy because I missed out on the Rio Conchos re-recording the first time so this is my opportunity to get it.
But I do understand the argument and it is frustrating thinking about having to buy stuff all over again since a lot of us have already spent a lot.
It kind of has gone like this:
70s - 90s: soundtracks are hard to come by and we spend money on the crappy, incomplete albums because that’s all we can get
90s - 2000s: some soundtracks get expanded releases and we buy those because it’s rare and exciting to have stuff for the first time
2000s - 2010s: we get a deluge of complete scores for amazing movies and we go crazy buying up all those gems
2010s - present: the complete scores plateau and become commonplace as all the big holy grails have now been released and we’re used to them - super-high fi rereleases of the same stuff baffle us as we wonder why it wasn’t done the first time
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Wait - now I'm really confused.
I'm purchasing from Intrada but the description sounds like it's only 24-bit if you wait for the digital download? When is that happening?
F*** it, this IS really annoying - I'm just purchasing the CD.
Damn 24-bit to hell! You maniacs!!!!!!
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INTRADA Announces:
RIO CONCHOS/THE ARTIST WHO DID NOT WANT TO PAINT
Music Composed and Conducted by JERRY GOLDSMITH
Performed by the LONDON SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA
INTRADA INT 7163
Intrada announces the second release of the Excalibur Collection in high-resolution digital. This release features the 1989 recording of Rio Conchos and The Artist Who Did Not Want to Paint under the baton of Jerry Goldsmith with the London Symphony Orchestra. The 24-bit, 96kHz hi-res format allows for a dramatic improvement in detail and depth in the quality of music over what one can hear with the the more common 16-bit, 44.1kHz CD format. The album has been remastered from the original session elements.
As with Ivanhoe, a limited edition CD release is also available from the new master to commemorate the release, available only until 6/21/2021.
When this digital recording of Rio Conchos was made on August 15 and 16, 1989, it was only the second time Goldsmith had taken an in-depth look at one of his earlier film scores. This exciting trip back in history followed the 1986 re-recording of his favorite work, the 1977 score for Islands in the Stream. Marking another debut of sorts, this new recording of Rio Conchos also brought Goldsmith face-to-face with the famous London Symphony Orchestra for the first time, a fortuitous encounter that launched the composer’s subsequent series of live concert performances.
With Rio Conchos (1964), Goldsmith hit a landmark in his early career, fashioning a challenging score that was difficult to perform, and creating musical devices that would later become Goldsmith “trademarks.” It was with this score that the composer developed his complex action writing. He also wrote virtuoso percussion material featuring, in particular, the snare and bass drum. The scoring called for large orchestra, augmented by guitars, banjos, harp and accordion. The large percussion section included such unusual instruments as bass marimba, crotales, jawbone and lujons.
INTRADA INT 7163
Barcode: 720258716309
Retail Price: $19.99
Available Now
For track listing and sound samples, please visit http://store.intrada.com/s.nl/it.A/id.12350/.f
Jerry Goldsmith
Label: Intrada INT 7163
Film Date: 1964
Album Date: 2021
Time: 60:12
Tracks: 16
Price: $19.99
Completely remastered presentation of our celebrated 1989 Excalibur series recording with Jerry Goldsmith conducting the London Symphony Orchestra.
This CD release will only be available for 45 days and goes off sale June 21 2021 or when supplies run out.
The 24-bit, 96kHz hi-res digital format is coming soon to wherever hi-res digital music is sold!
Completely remastered presentation of our celebrated 1989 Excalibur series recording with Jerry Goldsmith conducting the London Symphony Orchestra! In a spectacular recording event, Intrada commissioned Jerry Goldsmith to take a look backward and newly record his dramatic and aggressive 1964 western score Rio Conchos, which featured an early example of his scoring for full orchestra augmented by an array of banjos, guitars and accordion, soon-to-be trademarks of his western scoring vernacular.
Everything was captured in powerful, brilliant digital audio by his veteran engineer Bruce Botnick and played by the world class London Symphony Orchestra. Richard Boone, Stuart Whitman, Jim Brown, Anthony Franciosa led the cast, Gordon Douglas helmed the action, 20th Century Fox released the picture. Rio Conchos launches with a simple minor-key tune on accordion, accompanied by light percussion. It builds slightly through strings and French horns in the opening, then quickly recedes. But in what is surely one of the most powerful and spectacular finales of the composer’s entire career, that simple tune ultimately finishes the score with a resounding fortissimo in the entire orchestra, strings crying out with the melody, dissonant upper-register trumpets pealing, dynamic percussion thundering, everything but the proverbial kitchen sink. It is an explosive powerhouse finish rarely posited by the composer. Not just fortissimo, think triple forte! Wow! And in between, Goldsmith treats listeners to exciting action throughout.
While locating and preparing the manuscripts for performance, Intrada suggested Goldsmith also record the majestic and soaring 12-minute “Prologue” he scored for the 1965 film The Agony And The Ecstasy with Charlton Heston as Michelangelo. Sub-titled The Artist Who Did Not Want To Paint, the unusually emotional piece, written in five distinct sections and played as one lengthy movement appeared in front of select “roadshow” screenings of the Carol Reed-directed film (which was otherwise scored by Alex North). At times evoking the rich harmonic vocabulary of Vaughan Williams, at other times offering the soaring majesty of his own The Blue Max score (written the following year), Goldsmith fashioned this masterful prologue for an orchestra of expanded strings, harps, woodwinds and the unparalleled power of eight French horns, at times heard antiphonally and often in unison. The resulting sound is Jerry Goldsmith at his most personal!
The fully-remastered CD will be available only until June 21 2021 or while supplies last. After this period ends, the album will live on in the hi-res 24bit 96kHz digital format. Performed at Abbey Road, Bruce Botnick records, Jerry Goldsmith conducts the London Symphony Orchestra. A masterpiece!
The Agony and the Ecstasy
Prologue: “The Artist Who Did Not Want to Paint”
01. Rome/Florence/The Crucifix/The Stone Giants/The Agony Of Creation (12:37)
Rio Conchos
02. Rio Conchos (2:26)
03. Where’s The Water (1:55)
04. Bandits Ho (6:58)
05. The River (2:04)
06. River Crossing (4:22)
07. The Aftermath (2:06)
08. Wall Of Fire (2:21)
09. Lonely Indian (3:24)
10. Chief Bloodshirt (2:27)
11. The Corral (2:45)
12. Free Men / The Intruder (6:00)
13. Special Delivery (6:12)
14. End Cast (0:22)
THE EXTRAS
15. Wall Of Fire (Alternate take) (2:19)
16. End Cast (Take 1) (0:58) (With voices of composer and engineer)
http://store.intrada.com/s.nl/it.A/id.12350/.f
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