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It amazes me what a lack of enthusiasm there is here for another Williams Indiana Jones score. This...is a film music forum, right?
Maybe it's because the Crystal Skull album kinda sucked (not as much as the movie tho', hehe)... the complete score was *really* excellent though so I'm super excited for this. And I have to imagine they noticed the backlash against the fourth movie and will do something different/better there, this time around.
Yavar
Hehe.
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I have to imagine they noticed the backlash against the fourth movie and will do something different/better there, this time around.
Yavar
I think that’s kind of the problem though is that Disney publicly “workshops” their movies instead of just making a movie they’re passionate about and letting it succeed or fail.
Disney has been doing this with their brands for years since the 2000s, through “bloggers” - every service, toy collection or movie gets fan feedback that can influence what ultimately gets made. Now it incorporates social media data and it’s levels beyond what was usually called “market research” and even that was openly disdained by filmmakers throughout the 70s - 90s.
Most movies, especially franchises are produced on a schedule now which is like typical retail market practices - cyclical, predictable, and non-innovative.
Phoebe Waller-Bridge is like the “in-girl” fixer now for the big franchises - she’s a great performer and writer, but it all smells like padding for fans in a desperate attempt to bring in heavy-hitters to save the franchise.
They might as well put her in Jurassic Park and The Matrix next.
All of this to say - John Williams always does amazing work, but I wish they’d give him actually good passion projects that are well thought out and come from an honest place. His writing for Rise Of Skywalker was remarkably good considering the movie, but it still was an unnecessary challenge due to rewrites, re-edits, etc. and I think Williams deserves better than that.
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Oh, good Lord. I can't believe Ford and Williams are doing this. I loved Raiders of the Lost Ark--the movie. The next two were okay. Time to slink away quietly . . .
But no. I can't imagine anything worse. And why Williams would want to score something like this at this point in his life and career? There's a reason Barry stopped doing Bond movies. They were just more of the same. Williams is a talented composer. Why couldn't he pick a project more interesting?
Have Ford and Williams even seen a script?
My favorite Ford movies are Sabrina and Seven Days and Six Nights.
My favorite Williams scores are Images, Jane Eyre, The Reivers, CEOTTK, The Fury, Catch Me If You Can, The Long Goodbye, Superman, Dracula.
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It amazes me what a lack of enthusiasm there is here for another Williams Indiana Jones score. This...is a film music forum, right?
Yavar
Absolutely Yavar! Come what may of the movie, a new score by Mr. Williams is ALWAYS something to look forward to.
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Okay, since some posters don't like the idea that some of us are commenting about the film itself and not being sufficiently jazzed that Williams is scoring it, I'll dial back my criticism of the film itself and just say that Williams shouldn't waste his time scoring what will undoubtedly be numerous high-energy action cues consisting primarily of the Indiana Jones theme repeated endlessly--a theme that is my least favorite piece of music that Williams ever wrote.
So there--no comment on the film, just the music.
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I don't remember such a large chorus of naysayers decrying his assignment to every new Star Wars film, and he certainly reuses themes there even moreso than on each Indiana Jones film.
Hell, even Raiders of the Lost Ark didn't have a TON of the main march throughout it. And for each of the sequels (yes even Crystal Skull) he always wrote a great deal of brand new material which was wonderful. Heck, for Last Crusade he wrote a NEW Nazi motif even though he already had a perfectly fine one from Raiders! Plus, the Grail theme, family theme, and a whole host of new fantastic musical setpieces which were completely unlike any that came before. And Temple of Doom...I hate most of that movie but the SCORE had SO MUCH incredible fresh new material, completely unlike the scores on either side of it. Why would anyone expect Indiana Jones 5 to be a mere musical retread? There is literally no evidence to suggest it would be. And I for one wouldn't mind some very new and different musical treatments of even that main march theme, perhaps more subdued for our much more aged protagonist.
A chorus of complaining about John Williams being officially announced as writing a fifth Indiana Jones score, without even hearing a note of it ...I guess this really IS the most negative film music forum on the internet, like so many people say! Just, wow.
Yavar
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People take shots at composers all the time, and I usually don't participate, but today I did. And it wasn't harsh, just an opinion. But God forbid somebody should voice an opinion about John Williams that doesn't involve clacking both of your heals in the air.
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I think thoughtful critique is helpful, especially since we are currently living at an unprecedented time when everything about film music, films, and Hollywood in general is completely changing and in danger of evolving away forever (the advent of sound didn’t even come close to where Film is at now).
When soundtracks started to pick up more mainstream popularity in the 80s and 90s film was pretty secure - the only big change was CGI, but even then it didn’t throw the industry into upheaval.
We’re also at the tail-end of an almost centuries-long tradition of classical-based music and classically-trained composers working in film, with the new crowd having very little interest in carrying that baton forward while still having the skill to define their own sound.
Critique has been the cornerstone of forums since they’ve been in existence.
In this particular case it’s not the announcement of Williams but rather the movie itself that is the focus, because it’s been an on-again off-again thing - first Spielberg wasn’t going to direct, then Harrison Ford didn’t want to be in it.
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This might be his last film score. I would not be surprised.
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I am optimistic cause Mangold did a great job with an older Wolverine in 'Logan' and has made some really good other films as well, he has the chops to make this worthwile. And I will take any new John Williams' music.
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Without Spielberg or Lucas involved it’s weird. I don’t think Mangold is a good fit and “Logan” is typical of a lot of the uber-serious reboot movies that take themselves too seriously.
It’s also out of time, not just in the story world but the real world. The mysticism of the original films worked for the 1930s time period, especially with the Nazis as the villains. This also resonated more with 1980s audiences for which there could still be a level of supernatural mystery.
But not only do I think the internet destroyed the mystique of the “supernatural”, in the story world of the movie I don’t see how Ford’s age can match anything validly mysterious in the (1960s? 1970s?) that matches the tone and intent of Indiana Jones. And on an emotional level, The Last Crusade was a nice cap to the trilogy because it framed it as family being more important than work.
Ugh I’m shuddering just remembering Shia LeBeouf as Griff or Biff or Ruff or whatever his name was in Crystal Skull...
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