Film Score Monthly
FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM   
Search Terms: 
Search Within:   search tips 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 1:34 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

If one thinks of a film score as a painting for a moment, then it can be accurately said that all of the music created for a film is the whole painting.
(A painting for the ears, if you like.)
If the creator chooses to give us only bits and pieces of that painting--even if it is displayed in an artful fashion--it is still only bits and pieces.

I've said it before and I will say it again: I do not require anyone, even the creator, to spoon-feed their incomplete version of an complete vision to me.
I can make up my own mind.

To suggest that a complete work is somehow less artistic is to imply that the composers and artists are the best stewards of how that work is to be presented.
I would imagine that there are plenty of past examples where they were not.
I will leave it to others here to dig up examples, if they so wish.

The boutique labels, whatever their reasons may be, are (or should be) unwilling to do the editorial cherry-picking.
To do otherwise would risk raising the ire of the listener that may disagree with their choices.
Ultimately, that is as it should be.


I disagree. I don't need to hear every Sousa march, every kid playing chopsticks on the piano, every juke-joint fiddler playing shit-kickin' yeehaw music. The boutique label "producers" are too in awe of their heroes to make any sort of artistic decisions with their albums.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 1:35 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I've said it before and I will say it again: I do not require anyone, even the creator, to spoon-feed their incomplete version of an complete vision to me.

If someone took Da Vinci's MONA LISA and presented it as part of a film montage or something, I would expect it to gain a new significance, perhaps by its placement in the narrative. Cue Andy Warhol or whoever. Move something from its original intention and into something else, I EXPECT an adaption. If not, it's a failure by default.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 1:45 PM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

Those 30 minutes albums were, more often than not, very uncomfortable compromises. Driven more by financial constraints than by artistic intent.

Agree to disagree. Those 'compromises' were, in fact, a great way to reconceptualize the albums.


No they weren't. 40-50 minutes is about right for an album. Shrinking an 80 minute score down to a commercially-viable 29 minutes and 58 seconds is bordering on artistic abuse! They weren't even "highlights", they were a "snapshot". I don't blame Varese for this, of course, their hands were tied. And something was better than nothing.
But they were dark, dark days.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 1:47 PM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

They were no more reflective of the composer's vision for an album that 120 minute "complete scores".

I am not interested in the "composer's vision." I am interested in a satisfying listening experience. Sometimes the composer gets it right, sometimes not.


Then what you're arguing for is your personal opinion of what makes a great album. Which is totally subjective and really rather selfish... not to menion, impossible for somebody else to deliver.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 1:48 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

They were no more reflective of the composer's vision for an album that 120 minute "complete scores".

I am not interested in the "composer's vision." I am interested in a satisfying listening experience. Sometimes the composer gets it right, sometimes not.


Then what you're arguing for is your personal opinion of what makes a great album. Which is totally subjective and really rather selfish...


Anyone's opinion of a "great album" is subjective, whether it is the opinion of the composer, a real producer, a Fake producer, or a listener. I don't need to hear every Sousa march, every kid playing chopsticks on the piano, every juke-joint fiddler playing shit-kickin' yeehaw music.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 1:49 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

No they weren't. 40-50 minutes is about right for an album.

No.

The important thing is to be 'representave' for a score. That is, present the hilghlights, and organize them in an order that makes musically sense. For the most part, this worked wonderfully for those ol' Varese albums. Not always, but most of the time.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 1:51 PM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

Yes, they were.

The important thing is to be 'representave' for a score. That is, present the hilghlights, and organize them in an order that makes musically sense. For the most part, this worked wonderfully for those ol' Varese albums. Not always, but most of the time.


But they weren't representative and they often made no musical sense - then again we were living in the era of regular Graeme Revell releases so...!

Unless you want to argue that an "overture" is representative. In which case let's just keep the end title from The Empire Strikes Back and throw away the rest. It is, after all, representative - being that it covers every major theme and captures the tone of the whole score.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 1:53 PM   
 By:   .   (Member)

With thanks to the screenplay of Amadeus:



THOR: A good effort Mr. Fake. Decidedly that. An excellent CD! You've given us many previously unreleased cues today.

[Doug Fake bows frantically fiddling with his beret: he is over-excited by Thor's praise.]

DOUG FAKE: So then you like it? You really like it, Thor?

THOR: Of course I do. It's very good. Of course now and then - just now and then - it gets a touch long.

DOUG FAKE: What do you mean, Thor?

THOR: Well, I mean occasionally it seems to have, how shall one say? [he stops in difficulty; turning to OnyaBirri] How shall one tactfully say it, OnyaBirri?

ONYABIRRI: Too many cues?

THOR: Exactly. Very well put. Too many cues.

DOUG FAKE: I don't understand. There are just as many cues as were required for the score. Neither more nor less.

THOR: My dear fellow, there are in fact only so many cues the ear can hear in the course of an evening. I think I'm right in saying that, aren't I, OnyaBirri?

ONYABIRRI: Yes! yes! er, on the whole, yes, Thor.

DOUG FAKE: But this is absurd!

THOR: My dear Mr. Fake, don't take it too hard. Your work is ingenious. It's quality work. And there are simply too many cues, that's all. Cut a few and it will be perfect.

DOUG FAKE: Which few did you have in mind, Thor?

THOR: Well. There it is.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 1:53 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

But they weren't representative and they often made no musical sense. Unless you want to argue that an "overture" is representative. In which case let's just keep the end title from The Empire Strikes Back and throw away the rest. It is, after all, representative - being that it covers every major theme and captures the tone of the whole score.

Sometimes, they weren't representative, true. Like STAR WARS. But most of the time, they were.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 1:54 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

With thanks to the screenplay of Amadeus:

Your typing skills surpass your reading comprehension skills.

 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 1:56 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

I disagree. I don't need to hear every Sousa march, every kid playing chopsticks on the piano, every juke-joint fiddler playing shit-kickin' yeehaw music. The boutique label "producers" are too in awe of their heroes to make any sort of artistic decisions with their albums.


You're repeating your premise about the labels being in awe, but you haven't provided any proof that this is their actual reason.
Mind you, I'll grant that it's a fair assumption, but so far it's still just an assumption.
Whereas I maintain that their solution to the problem is to provide as much material as the majority of score fans would want.
And I find that perfectly legit and valid, both artistically and logically.

I am not denying or diminishing the enjoyment of the old album presentations.
After all, art most often thrives on constraints.
So I completely get that part of your position.
I am just saying that now we have the best of both worlds.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 1:57 PM   
 By:   Caldera Records   (Member)


That is the gist of it. The boutique labels are answering to market demand, because ultimately they need to move product. It also helps, of course, that the people who run these labels often happen to share this particular preference (thankfully, there are exceptions -- like Caldera Records).


F*ck C&C.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 1:57 PM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

But they weren't representative and they often made no musical sense. Unless you want to argue that an "overture" is representative. In which case let's just keep the end title from The Empire Strikes Back and throw away the rest. It is, after all, representative - being that it covers every major theme and captures the tone of the whole score.

Sometimes, they weren't representative, true. Like STAR WARS. But most of the time, they were.


Name three!

And you're not allowed to include scores of just 30 mins in length, e.g. Fierce Creatures

I can think of only one composer for whom 30 minutes albums seemed to "work" - by that I mean didn't entirely wreck the concept of their scores. And that was Alan Silvestri.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 1:58 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

F*ck C&C.

Oh, God, thank you for chiming in. I wish there were emojis. Lots of 'hearts' sent your way.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 2:02 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)


You're repeating your premise about the labels being in awe, but you haven't provided any proof that this is their actual reason.
Mind you, I'll grant that it's a fair assumption, but so far it's still just an assumption.
Whereas I maintain that their solution to the problem is to provide as much material as the majority of score fans would want.
And I find that perfectly legit and valid, both artistically and logically.


I don't find it legit from an environmental standpoint when we are all having to burn CD-Rs that will end up in the landfill. I doubt the labels care about this, as they are fanboys, and as we know, film score fans couldn't get laid in a French whorehouse. So the proprietors of boutique labels don't have to worry about future generations.

 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 2:02 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

F*ck C&C.

Oh, God, thank you for chiming in. I wish there were emojis. Lots of 'hearts' sent your way.



Thor, are you drinking right now?
I ask because it's not really your regular style to appreciate anyone else's vulgar opinion to validate your own.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 2:04 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Of course I'm drinking! It's Saturday evening! But that doesn't mean that I don't recognize a reasonble point-of-view when I see one.

 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 2:05 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

I don't find it legit from an environmental standpoint when we are all having to burn CD-Rs that will end up in the landfill. I doubt the labels care about this, as they are fanboys, and as we know, film score fans couldn't get laid in a French whorehouse. So the proprietors of boutique labels don't have to worry about future generations.


Okay, so Thor is not the only one raising a glass, then?

(Please, don't anyone tell him that you can buy rewritables or jumpsticks! This is more fun!)

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 2:07 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I don't find it legit from an environmental standpoint when we are all having to burn CD-Rs that will end up in the landfill. I doubt the labels care about this, as they are fanboys, and as we know, film score fans couldn't get laid in a French whorehouse. So the proprietors of boutique labels don't have to worry about future generations.


Okay, so Thor is not the only one raising a glass, then?

(Please, don't anyone tell him that you can buy rewritables or jumpsticks! This is more fun!)


Of course I am raising a glass! But that does not mean that I'm incapable of recognizing a jive-ass producer credit when I see one.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 2:07 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

F*ck C&C.

Oh, God, thank you for chiming in. I wish there were emojis. Lots of 'hearts' sent your way.



Thor, are you drinking right now?
I ask because it's not really your regular style to appreciate anyone else's vulgar opinion to validate your own.


It's not just anyone, it's a soundtrack label. And he's merely congratulating them on their insight to agree with him, not the other way around.

 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
© 2024 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved.
Website maintained and powered by Veraprise and Matrimont.