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 Posted:   Feb 14, 2018 - 10:40 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Hey I never said Final Frontier was a *better* composition or film score than The Motion Picture. But it IS my favorite. And the expansion was a revelation, adding key development of the great new themes (The Mountain, Sybok, the Great Barrier...) I'm with Schiffy in that I think Goldsmith's treatment of his TMP themes was cartoony and lost the grandeur of the original...the reason this is my favorite Trek in expanded form is all of the NEW meterial in it which elevates it to a high degree. For me it is my most enjoyed and most listened to Goldsmith Trek.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Feb 14, 2018 - 11:00 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

I have to join the TWoK is better than TSfS crowd.

 
 Posted:   Feb 14, 2018 - 11:14 AM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

They're really both winners, but if needed we can make a classical comparison... Beethoven's Symphony #4 and #9 are both masterful works, but it's always be #9 that tops out due to it's "Ode to Joy" element... same with TMP vs TFF for Goldsmith, as the scope, imagination and breadth of TMP objectively places it a notch above TFF, even both are wonderful scores.

 
 Posted:   Feb 14, 2018 - 11:19 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

Hey I never said Final Frontier was a *better* composition or film score than The Motion Picture. But it IS my favorite. And the expansion was a revelation, adding key development of the great new themes (The Mountain, Sybok, the Great Barrier...) I'm with Schiffy in that I think Goldsmith's treatment of his TMP themes was cartoony and lost the grandeur of the original...the reason this is my favorite Trek in expanded form is all of the NEW meterial in it which elevates it to a high degree. For me it is my most enjoyed and most listened to Goldsmith Trek.

Yavar


I didn't think you meant compositionally (at least not necessarily that). Just that you're not alone is apparently preferring FF to the original. I've talked to several folks besides that prefer it...I do notice a trend as far as most of the same folks seem to prefer it simply because they were kind of burnt out on the original at that point in time.

From a purely compositional level FF doesn't seem too far away from TMP as far as writing style goes; there's plenty of high quality motivic development (with JG's idiosyncratic use of orchestral colours in full bloom) and delightfully wicked harmonic twists (this last is one of his trademarks, and the main reason people talk about him intentionally doing things in his scores that will satisfy his own goal of creating elite absolute music without interfering with the film).

It's just that JG seemed more inspired (shoot, the entire orchestra sounds like they're happily rocking out on TMP recording...admittedly, I'm going by the entirety of the La La Land release).

FF as mentioned isn't really a big difference in terms of music and JG's trademark approaches; however from what I've heard (I don't own any of the releases yet, so this is second hand youtube driveling if ya wanna get technical) even when FF exploits the classic themes it does so in a really engaging way. I caught myself smiling both at the very familiar as well as the original music. It was a refreshing listen for me after what's been over a month worship of the TMP score.

WHEW! That was a lot of hot air (apologies and No Doz in the line to left).

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 14, 2018 - 1:04 PM   
 By:   Marcato   (Member)

FF end title is a bit boring - i miss a synthesizer during the klingon theme, but beside that it's good

I like the TMP end title becaurse it has energy


AND i do like the alternate cut (6:08) of Nemissis end title wink

 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2018 - 6:54 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

For the record, adjusted for inflation ST:TMP was the second highest grossing Star Trek film. (Including the JJ films)

 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2018 - 9:46 AM   
 By:   theMaestraX   (Member)

First Contact & Insurrection (-best) I would look into WA!

 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2018 - 10:40 AM   
 By:   townerbarry   (Member)

I've heard this opined from a couple of members, and at first I was as dubious as the many who will shell-shockedly check this thread out.

I must admit however: I've listened at length to the album on youtube (which of course is a very compressed and imperfect way to listen, I know), and it is really a strong effort imo.

I'm curious how other members feel about this CD and its manifold releases.

Once again, I'm super grateful for any help!



No and Yes Jerry Goldsmith’s score to Star Trek: The Boring Picture is better than the movie.

And

Yes to your next question..Jerry Goldsmith’s score to Star Trek V..is better than the movie.

 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2018 - 10:40 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

And the FC score is better than Insurrection and Nemesis scores.

 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2018 - 10:40 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

First Contact & Insurrection (-best) I would look into WA!

I heard great music from both off youtube today, also Voyager.

Man, I might not be the biggest ST fan (I love the original series and Wrath of Khan is just a plain good movie imo), but there's some wonderful scoring done for those films.

 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2018 - 11:05 AM   
 By:   Jeff Bond   (Member)

I think if you reduce Trek V to just the uses of the march theme, the Klingon theme and the action sequences (in other words, if you're just talking about the original album sequence), it seems clearly less satisfying than TMP, which of course is an Oscar-nominated masterwork (and I always tend to prefer Goldsmith's and Williams' first crack at franchises--except for The Omen, where I much prefer Jerry's sequel music to the Oscar-winning original). But in listening to the whole score, Goldsmith's treatment of the theme for Sybok (which really only registers as an action theme on the original album) and his warm space-traveling music like the early space dock cue (tied to the attack on the planet outpost) and the arrival at Nimbus and shuttlecraft landing gives you a lot more recognizable "Star Trek" music from my perspective, whereas with TMP at least half the score is off in a very experimental (admittedly brilliant) direction. So in a way TFF felt more like what I was hoping to get out of the whole Star Trek movie experience. But I really see no point in comparing them--all of Goldsmith's work shows a constant evolution, whether you like the direction of the evolution or not, so all of his Star Trek scores are recognizably from different periods and the first two movies are just radically different films that required different musical approaches. TMP and TFF are by far my favorite two Star Trek movie scores (with Wrath of Khan a very close third) and I love that we have all these scores presented fully now.

 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2018 - 11:21 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

I completely agree with you, Jeff. When recalling the brilliant original with the main or Klingon theme, TFF suffers. But when it's doing it's own wonderful thing, for me it soars above TMP in my own preference because it has more of a warm Star Trek feel. I love the development of the Sybok theme in particular, whereas on the original album it only appeared in the great action cue Open the Gates IIRC, almost making it seem like a stand-alone composition similar to The Asteroid Field from The Empire Strikes Back. But it (and the gorgeous friendship theme from The Mountain) were in fact recurring ideas which gained a lot of poignancy in their reprises.

Man, I might not be the biggest ST fan (I love the original series and Wrath of Khan is just a plain good movie imo), but there's some wonderful scoring done for those films.

I *adore* the music for all of these films...with the exception of the Leonard Rosenman score for IV (and even that grew on me a bit thanks to the complete Intrada release). Oh, and I like fine (but don't love) the recent Giacchino trilogy of scores.

That said, among Goldsmith's output, even though I do love his TNG scores too, they do not have the sustained brilliance of his TOS crew scores.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2018 - 1:21 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

nothing in TMP is as profound as "The Mountain" (TFF)
for this listener.

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2018 - 8:57 AM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

I find it interesting to compare the original album versions of TMP and TFF against their expanded editions and our reception of each as fans. The original album versions of TMP and TFF were both around 40 minutes each and while TMP had more music available to pull from, its 40 minute album seems to better represent the entire whole. On the flip side, most of us here seem to agree that the 40 minute album for TFF was sorely lacking and hearing the expanded version completely changed some opinions.

Everyone knew TMP was a masterpiece, we all wanted additional cues such as "Total Logic" and "Inner Workings" and yet I think that since the bulk of the 2nd half of the movie is devoted to the Vejur thematic material, a condensed album of highlights is better able to capture the gist of it. This doesn't seem to be the case with TFF, perhaps due to its varying tones of shifting from adventure, to friendship, to wonder, to action and suspense, etc.

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2018 - 9:07 AM   
 By:   WillGoldNewtonBarryGrusin   (Member)

There's no better for me. Both are spectacular in their own way.

I don´t even get the necessity of determining what is better.

This is not like sports where the winning team is the better one. This is art. And therefore subjective in itself.

Love both scores instead. They are surely deserving of it.

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2018 - 9:27 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

There's no better for me. Both are spectacular in their own way.

I don´t even get the necessity of determining what is better.

This is not like sports where the winning team is the better one. This is art. And therefore subjective in itself.

Love both scores instead. They are surely deserving of it.


It's just innocuous fun.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2018 - 9:51 AM   
 By:   KT   (Member)

.

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2018 - 9:54 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

It's just innocuous fun.

Sure, it's all fun and games until Xander puts an eye out.



acathala will never see this. ;-)

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2018 - 11:29 AM   
 By:   townerbarry   (Member)

...and by the way..even Goldsmith said in interviews..He didn’t “Get It” about Star Trek Films.

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2018 - 12:05 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

TMP is filled with a variety of themes that stand out. There's many layers and textures throughout.
TFF has a serviceable underscore with a few stand out cues.

 
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