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And that's a good example of why we talk about it. Who knows -- what Broughtfan wrote may lead to something. Some good information there.
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Posted: |
Oct 13, 2016 - 8:33 AM
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By: |
RoryR
(Member)
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Schiffy, you're not Perry Mason and we're not in a court of law, so what's this thing with demanding evidence?
I'll admit that I get cranky -- play, perhaps excessively cranky -- when people toss around accusations based on nothing. Believe me, I have no love for 20th Century Fox on any level, and being in the entertainment business myself, some of that grudge is personal. (And I suppose I'm sensitive, given that I'll see people jumping to similar conclusions on the internet about projects that I or friends of mine are involved in. I can take criticism - I'm pretty self-loathing myself – but I do get sore when people assume I've made choices cynically when I simply tried my best and maybe came up short.)
That said, how does it help to make such accusations? When you write "I suspect licensing fees from Fox that are just too ridiculously high" and "Fox wants too much money," it doesn't take long before these suspicions (yes, you acknowledged that) are taken as fact. Obviously, this is a common problem these days, where politicians back up specious claims with "a lot of people are saying" – and I fully grant you, the stakes on this board are not that high! – but I just don't see what good it does to suggest that the studio is avaricious to the point of delusion.
Honestly, given how little money is in these limited releases, I think it's a miracle that any of these studios bother at all. And Fox was the first studio to jump in to the archival soundtrack releases, 23 years ago.
We know that pieces of this score have been missing. I don't think it's much of a reach to believe that's why we haven't seen more of it than Varèse released.
If you seriously believe that an "accusation" from little ol' me is going to be confused with fact and come to harm a corporation like 20th Century Fox, then just call me humbled and amazed. Never knew I had such power on the FSM message board.
Better to just call me as I call myself -- cynical. In matters such as these (what the studios release), it is my cynical view that it is almost entirely a matter of money, and what will make money and what won't. As to why we haven't had and are unlikely to get a complete score release of DAMNATION ALLEY, my cynical belief is that it's less a matter of what's missing and much more a matter of what it would cost to either find or reconstruct that which can't easily be obtained.
I don't say it'll never happen. My belief is that just the mono music stems from the film's soundtrack (of the synth sections, I mean), digitally cleaned up and stereoized, would be enough for a full score reconstruction. I just cynically don't believe I should hold my breath waiting for it.
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Posted: |
Oct 13, 2016 - 8:40 AM
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By: |
Broughtfan
(Member)
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I doubt this helps at all, but here's info I had on the DA scoring sessions (from the OM reports filed with AFM 47, collected as research material in 2012 or 2013):
Post production title: "Survival Run" (Damnation Alley)
Recording dates (orchestral score recorded TCF stage): 26, 27 January, 3 February, 1977 (four saxes recorded afternoon session 3 February, fourteen piece big band recorded 4 February, 1977)
Orchestra complements (not incl. leader): 70, 69, 69
Leader: J.Goldsmith (all dates)
Keyboardist on session (probably piano): Artie Kane
Guessing Jerry Goldsmith pre-recorded all of the synth tracks himself (as he had on Logan's Run).
Would his estate have retained the pre-records (perhaps as "Survival Run")?
Happy to throw in my "two cents worth."
Some more DA FYI: Score has no violins, Goldsmith relying instead on expanded sections of viola (15/14), cello (12) and bass (6) which, for this kind of action-adventure story, works well (this is the same approach Fred Steiner took for his ST: TOS scores, that is, sans violin).
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What’s nice about your thread, Yavar, is that you’ve taken the time to discuss the music and encouraged others to do the same. So, instead of a thread padded with “ordered” or “I will not buy this watermelon” statements, we have discussion about the music.
Thanks Chris. That's nice of you to say.
In the nice unreleased suite, provided by The Mutant, it’s interesting to note how Goldsmith uses the brass and synths in a manner more reminiscent of percussion. The synth lines then act as an accelerator propelling the action forward. It’s all like a brilliant blend of Capricorn One and Logan’s Run.
Maybe I need to keep trying to like Logan's Run. Similarly to Total Recall, it's a Goldsmith score which is often praised by many, yet which I have trouble warming up to. As with Total Recall, I can admire the compositional architecture and concept, yet the music mostly leaves me cold. I think the synths are honestly a large part of that, even though I get why they are used and it's probably brilliant in the film (I'm guessing if I see the film that'll certainly help me appreciate the score).
But with Damnation Alley, I think the synths are brilliantly melded with the rest of the orchestra. In fact I think this score may be some of my favorite Goldsmith synth usage ever. They don't datedly stick out like a sore thumb at all, as they do for me in otherwise great scores like Legend, Rambo: First Blood Part II, and Under Fire.
Goldsmith’s score certainly conjures mental images of a far better film than it accompanied. But that seemed to be the case through much of his career.
As for the audio, certainly anything is possible by combining disparate elements -- this is not extraordinary in the world of soundtrack album production now.
You've given me a lot of hope that a complete Damnation Alley release could actually happen some day, even if the original synth elements are never found. Thank you.
Yavar
P.S. Thanks Broughtfan for the extra recording info.
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https://youtu.be/MFtj4aR3Ms0
Yeah I had to edit around the dialogue and some other things. If you watch the film you'll see how I connected certain pieces. And yes, Goldsmith really injected energy into those shots of the landmaster rolling across the countryside. I love the bits on the Varese CD, but I think the best parts are still unreleased.
I'd definitely take a crack at Crawlspace.
Just wanted to bump this thread to ask Mutant: Did you ever start tackling a salvageable unreleased suite from Crawlspace? The work you did on Damnation Alley is fantastic!
Yavar
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Sorry dude. I haven't. Totally got sidetracked. Also switched computers and I'm currently without editing software. :/
Oh darn. Well, I'll continue to live in hope. 
Yavar
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I hope I can be forgiven a moment of gloating...
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but there seems little hope for a release like this, so what is it you want me to do? You gotta plan or what?
Yavar, if you haven't got a plan to make this happen... then what's the point? We all know already that we wish this score would come out, but even you yourself, Yavar, don't see any light coming down the tunnel.
Yavar, this is what I'm asking you.... Is there any hope? Is there any hope, Yavar?!!!!!!
YES, there is MORE than hope now! Wahoo!
It's looking certain that I will soon join DeputyRiley in having one of my complete score analyses followed up by an actual release of the score in question -- signs point to Damnation Alley being Intrada's single disc December 5th release. What a way to close out the year!
Yavar
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