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 Posted:   May 13, 2016 - 2:47 PM   
 By:   Sir David of Garland   (Member)



Not quite sure what you mean there, David. DID Raksin actually begin writing the score in the style of Purcell and then abandon the idea?


Exactly. I found it interesting that he started writing in the style of Purcell, intending to do the entire score that way. He found it wasn't working as an approach to the score. He abandoned the approach and had to begin again. So he fell behind writing the score. A dramatic thing to happen (maybe worth doing as a movie!), and oddly left out of liner notes.

At least that's my recollection of what Raksin told his students.



 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2016 - 2:48 PM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

NUTMEGGIAN UPDATE - I've just read that Raksin initially thought that a Purcellian approach would be appropriate, then he changed his mind when he saw the film. Still, it doesn't say explicitly (I'm looking at an old Tony Thomas book) that he "wasted time" writing Purcellian pastiche which he later jettisoned, it just says he spent two and a half weeks searching for themes during the day, and reading the book by night (which of course he claims was "more fatiguing").But wasn't all that AFTER he decided to abandon the initial idea of an "all-Purcell" score? Enlighten me.

The only thing I know is that THIS IS ONE OF THE GREATEST SCORES OF ALL TIME!!! I must admit though, like the previous poster, I do tend to veer towards the astounding RCA Victor 25-min jobby than the whole (incomplete) Varese.

 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2016 - 2:49 PM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)



Not quite sure what you mean there, David. DID Raksin actually begin writing the score in the style of Purcell and then abandon the idea?


Exactly. I found it interesting that he started writing in the style of Purcell, intending to do the entire score that way. He found it wasn't working as an approach to the score. He abandoned the approach and had to begin again. So he fell behind writing the score. A dramatic thing to happen (maybe worth doing as a movie!), and oddly left out of liner notes.

At least that's my recollection of what Raksin told his students.


Gotcha! We posted at the same time. Thanks for the info. Consider me redundant.

 
 Posted:   May 13, 2016 - 2:49 PM   
 By:   Sir David of Garland   (Member)


In the cut version, which seems to be the only one shown anywhere now, the ending is literally chopped up, without the orchestral upturn, but accompanied instead by an inserted title that Amber had to pay for her transgressions. Such crap.



Izzat what is on the dvd? I'm getting it from the library.

I don't remember ending I saw in Raksin's class, which was his personal print.

 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2016 - 3:34 PM   
 By:   waxmanman35   (Member)

I just requested the 1947 edition of the book from the library, AND IT'S SIX HUNDRED FIFTY TWO PAGES.

As to Film Music Notes, it was published bi-monthly, each issue averaging around 25 pages, so what the library will be giving you will probably be two or more years' worth of issues.

In the Laura/Forever Amber/Bad and the Beautiful RCA CD Raksin wrote: "In the course of explaining what we would be recording at the next session I began to describe the process by which I had tried to arrive at a style appropriate to a certain film. I knew that to the prospective audience the music that says "England" is not that which was being composed there during the reign of Charles II but rather the music written half a century later by a German, George Frideric Handel... There was one piece, however in which I slyly parodied one of the sonatas for cembalo by Domenico Scarlatti that Oscar Levant used to play."

 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2016 - 6:41 PM   
 By:   lacoq   (Member)

I just requested the 1947 edition of the book from the library, AND IT'S SIX HUNDRED FIFTY TWO PAGES.

As to Film Music Notes, it was published bi-monthly, each issue averaging around 25 pages, so what the library will be giving you will probably be two or more years' worth of issues.

In the Laura/Forever Amber/Bad and the Beautiful RCA CD Raksin wrote: "In the course of explaining what we would be recording at the next session I began to describe the process by which I had tried to arrive at a style appropriate to a certain film. I knew that to the prospective audience the music that says "England" is not that which was being composed there during the reign of Charles II but rather the music written half a century later by a German, George Frideric Handel... There was one piece, however in which I slyly parodied one of the sonatas for cembalo by Domenico Scarlatti that Oscar Levant used to play."



I think DavidinBerkeley is talking about getting the actual novel from the library? Not Film Music Notes.....

 
 Posted:   May 18, 2016 - 8:24 PM   
 By:   Sir David of Garland   (Member)



I think DavidinBerkeley is talking about getting the actual novel from the library? Not Film Music Notes.....


Yup.

 
 Posted:   May 18, 2016 - 8:25 PM   
 By:   Sir David of Garland   (Member)


I liked the score so much I rented a VHS copy (remember those?) from Blockbuster (remember them?), and I liked the movie quite a bit, so I tracked down the novel on interlibrary loan (does anybody do that anymore?). Boring. So boring...



I've got some dull reading ahead of me, then! big grin

 
 Posted:   May 18, 2016 - 8:27 PM   
 By:   Sir David of Garland   (Member)

NUTMEGGIAN UPDATE - I've just read that Raksin initially thought that a Purcellian approach would be appropriate, then he changed his mind when he saw the film. Still, it doesn't say explicitly (I'm looking at an old Tony Thomas book) that he "wasted time" writing Purcellian pastiche which he later jettisoned, it just says he spent two and a half weeks searching for themes during the day, and reading the book by night (which of course he claims was "more fatiguing").But wasn't all that AFTER he decided to abandon the initial idea of an "all-Purcell" score? Enlighten me.



Again, the story I told above is what I recall him saying to his students, in class, in the middle 1980's.

In which Thomas book did you read what you heard?

 
 Posted:   May 18, 2016 - 9:02 PM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

This is a movie that Fox needs to restore and put out on Blu-ray, or provide a decent enough HD transfer to license out to Twilight Time or some other company.

It was shown last December on the Fox Movie Channel in standard definition and looked decent enough, but still too soft and a bit muddy. I hope there's better elements in the vault. If not, damn shame.

The mono sountrack at least sounded quite fine. I still have the movie on my DVR, but the Fox Movie Channel, now calling itself FXM Retro, is finally showing HD transfers of many in the Fox library.

 
 
 Posted:   May 19, 2016 - 11:16 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

I was first introduced to this score by the Charles Gerhardt lp: "'Laura': the Classic Film Scores of David Raksin," . . . In the notes, Gerhardt explains . . .

A lovely album indeed, but actually conducted by Raksin himself. While obviously modeled on the Gerhardt RCA albums, it was not strictly part of the Classic Film Scores series.

 
 
 Posted:   May 19, 2016 - 2:43 PM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

NUTMEGGIAN UPDATE - I've just read that Raksin initially thought that a Purcellian approach would be appropriate, then he changed his mind when he saw the film. Still, it doesn't say explicitly (I'm looking at an old Tony Thomas book) that he "wasted time" writing Purcellian pastiche which he later jettisoned, it just says he spent two and a half weeks searching for themes during the day, and reading the book by night (which of course he claims was "more fatiguing").But wasn't all that AFTER he decided to abandon the initial idea of an "all-Purcell" score? Enlighten me.

(posted Graham Watt)

Again, the story I told above is what I recall him saying to his students, in class, in the middle 1980's.

In which Thomas book did you read what you heard?
(posted DavidinBerkeley)

Ouch! Just checked. I didn't read it in any Tony Thomas book. It was in Mark Evans' "Soundtrack: The Music of the Movies", published in 1975. I was paraphrasing anyway, just (mis)interpreting the story in my own way. But YOU, David, had classes with the great man, and I have only seen photos of him, so you win.

I re-re-re-re-re (etc) re-re-revisited this score the other day. I still prefer the Raksin-conducted reduction over the original soundtrack. I like the way Raksin highlights little details, and gives emphasis to some moments with the subtlest of pauses. The Newman-conducted original seems to me to have less character, although I have read that that Alf Newman chap was no second-rate nutmeg with a baton.

 
 Posted:   May 23, 2016 - 7:44 PM   
 By:   Sir David of Garland   (Member)


I liked the score so much I rented a VHS copy (remember those?) from Blockbuster (remember them?), and I liked the movie quite a bit, so I tracked down the novel on interlibrary loan (does anybody do that anymore?). Boring. So boring...



I've got some dull reading ahead of me, then! big grin


On page 7, this might be as racy as it gets....


"'Don't cry, Judith darling. I'll come back to you. someday we'll have our home and our family. someday we'll have each other --'

'Someday, John!' Her arms caught at him desperately, her face was frightened and her eyes reckless. 'Someday! But what if someday never comes!'

An hour later he was gone and Judith rode back to the house, happy and at peace, content as never before in her life. For now -- now matter what happened, no matter who won or lost the war -- they were sure of each other. Sometimes they might have to be apart, but they could never be really separated again. Life seemed simpler to her, and more complete."

 
 Posted:   May 23, 2016 - 7:50 PM   
 By:   Sir David of Garland   (Member)


Ouch! Just checked. I didn't read it in any Tony Thomas book. It was in Mark Evans' "Soundtrack: The Music of the Movies", published in 1975.


I'm going to find this in the library. Thanks for the recommendation, Graham.

 
 Posted:   May 23, 2016 - 7:52 PM   
 By:   Sir David of Garland   (Member)



Izzat what is on the dvd? I'm getting it from the library.

I don't remember ending I saw in Raksin's class, which was his personal print.


Watching the dvd this week. I can't believe it's a "bare bones" release, with no commentary, etc.

 
 Posted:   May 23, 2016 - 9:21 PM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)



Izzat what is on the dvd? I'm getting it from the library.

I don't remember ending I saw in Raksin's class, which was his personal print.


Watching the dvd this week. I can't believe it's a "bare bones" release, with no commentary, etc.


Fox doesn't seem to have much respect for it. Too dated, I guess.

 
 Posted:   May 24, 2016 - 9:19 AM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

I was first introduced to this score by the Charles Gerhardt lp: "'Laura': the Classic Film Scores of David Raksin," . . . In the notes, Gerhardt explains . . .

A lovely album indeed, but actually conducted by Raksin himself. While obviously modeled on the Gerhardt RCA albums, it was not strictly part of the Classic Film Scores series.


Exactly: NOT A Charles Gerhardt Recording.

Raksin conducted suites from "The Bad and the Beautiful", "Laura" and "Forever Amber."

Fabulous album.

 
 
 Posted:   May 24, 2016 - 1:57 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

I was first introduced to this score by the Charles Gerhardt lp: "'Laura': the Classic Film Scores of David Raksin," . . . In the notes, Gerhardt explains . . .

A lovely album indeed, but actually conducted by Raksin himself. While obviously modeled on the Gerhardt RCA albums, it was not strictly part of the Classic Film Scores series.


Exactly: NOT A Charles Gerhardt Recording.

Raksin conducted suites from "The Bad and the Beautiful", "Laura" and "Forever Amber."

Fabulous album.




Fabulous is right! I bought this LP when it came out and immediately loved it. I too prefer the album suite from FOREVER AMBER over the CD soundtrack although I'm very happy with the CD soundtrack too. THE BAD AND THE BEAUTIFUL is a favorite Raksin score of mine.

 
 Posted:   May 24, 2016 - 2:10 PM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

Yes, that David Raksin suites album is highly recommended!!!

 
 
 Posted:   May 24, 2016 - 6:54 PM   
 By:   Primo   (Member)

I was first introduced to this score by the Charles Gerhardt lp: "'Laura': the Classic Film Scores of David Raksin," . . . In the notes, Gerhardt explains . . .

A lovely album indeed, but actually conducted by Raksin himself. While obviously modeled on the Gerhardt RCA albums, it was not strictly part of the Classic Film Scores series.


While not a Gerhardt-conducted album it IS a Gerhardt-produced album, and, as such, could be rightly regarded as part of the RCA series.

 
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