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 Posted:   Apr 3, 2007 - 2:28 PM   
 By:   ryankeaveney   (Member)

Best quote of the Canadian national anthem in a film score. Ever!

The anthem used in 1941 is not the one Canada uses now.


The poem and tune that the nat'l anthem is based on is as old as 1880, but the one we know today was written around 1908. It did take until 1942 before the idea really caught on, but it's possible that Williams heard the tune and put it in his score.

I swear I heard a quick quote of it in there and I'm not crazy... Am I?

Ryan

 
 Posted:   Apr 3, 2007 - 6:17 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)



Good ole' Manderley always up for extra innings! Leslie Howard's character was strange then and seems strange now. It's a FINE character who (eventually) show's the audience his true worth as a Human Being. But you have to admit that a man who's up there (not at the time, but in later years 'Brokeback Country') who's taking along a Picasso and a Matisse for his Tee-Pee, and has along Two Cowboys who are sharing another Tee-Pee.... well. I'm sure I'm inserting modern reflections into all this, but even at the time 63 years ago, the Howard character must have seemed 'unusual', no? I really DID enjoy the way Howard got in some licks 'literally and figuratively' on The Nazi at the end of that scene: I'm sure the audiences of the time must have cheered!


Leslie Howard, fey as can be, was a true blue hetero and notorious ladies man!

 
 Posted:   Apr 3, 2007 - 6:19 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)



The poem and tune that the nat'l anthem is based on is as old as 1880, but the one we know today was written around 1908. It did take until 1942 before the idea really caught on, but it's possible that Williams heard the tune and put it in his score.

I swear I heard a quick quote of it in there and I'm not crazy... Am I?

Ryan


The suite issued on Chandos has some great music that was not used and definitely quotes "O Canada".

 
 Posted:   Apr 3, 2007 - 6:24 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

I am so pleased to see this film has so many fans.

One of my great frustrations in reading about Michael Powell is the almost complete ignoring of this classic. Yet criTics fall all over themselves praising the overrated PEEPING TOM*!

In fact , the only essay I have ever read that extols the film was on the Criterion laserdisc release, written by Bruce Eder. I hope it carries over to the dvd. It is a magnificent overview of the film!

Bruce Marshall

* i don't want to tO start an argument over this- it's really off-topic; but PT is an awful film.
Sorry, it's the truth.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 4, 2007 - 3:22 AM   
 By:   Montana Dave   (Member)

I am so pleased to see this film has so many fans.

One of my great frustrations in reading about Michael Powell is the almost complete ignoring of this classic. Yet criTics fall all over themselves praising the overrated PEEPING TOM*!

In fact , the only essay I have ever read that extols the film was on the Criterion laserdisc release, written by Bruce Eder. I hope it carries over to the dvd. It is a magnificent overview of the film!

Bruce Marshall

* i don't want to tO start an argument over this- it's really off-topic; but PT is an awful film.
Sorry, it's the truth.


Hello Bruce. I saw 'Peeping Tom' once back in the 80's at an arthouse screening. I found it intriguing, but even in the 80's it felt terribly dated... in ways that '49th Parallel', 'Black Narcissus', 'I Know Where I'm Going' or even 'Red Shoes' don't. 'Peeping Tom' to me at least, did NOT feel in any way as though it were Directed by Powell. It had style, and technique but it was so incredibly lurid that it just was somewhat 'off putting' to me. It just wasn't the Powell I was used to. It was a very, very different departure for him and I can't say if it succeeded - I suppose it did if everyone is tripping over themeselves praising it though, huh? (I don't know, I'd gotten to feel familiar and comfortable with Powell and his works and this one made me feel sort of... as though your favorite Uncle suddenly made a name for himself by making a Porno.)

 
 Posted:   Apr 4, 2007 - 5:35 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)



Hello Bruce. I saw 'Peeping Tom' once back in the 80's at an arthouse screening. I found it intriguing, but even in the 80's it felt terribly dated... in ways that '49th Parallel', 'Black Narcissus', 'I Know Where I'm Going' or even 'Red Shoes' don't. 'Peeping Tom' to me at least, did NOT feel in any way as though it were Directed by Powell. It had style, and technique but it was so incredibly lurid that it just was somewhat 'off putting' to me. It just wasn't the Powell I was used to. It was a very, very different departure for him and I can't say if it succeeded - I suppose it did if everyone is tripping over themeselves praising it though, huh? (I don't know, I'd gotten to feel familiar and comfortable with Powell and his works and this one made me feel sort of... as though your favorite Uncle suddenly made a name for himself by making a Porno.)


I have a theory as to the acclaim of PT. It has to do with snobishness. It was derided upon it's release and barely distributed. So, of course it must be a case of a great artist being ahead of his time and suffering from the no-nothings. Right?

Wrong.

ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA is a similar case of an overpraised failure from a filmmaker who was a genuinely great artiste.

brm

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 4, 2007 - 5:45 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

I've still never seen PEEPING TOM. Maybe I should leave well enough alone, I wonder...

Thanks for your perceptive memories of Ray, Montana. I think the character in 49th P. was a rare, perhaps the ONLY, opportunity he ever had in film to play just a "regular guy." And of course, being Canadian himself, he must have relished it.

He was respected by many, underrated by some. I still think he's never been given his due for EAST OF EDEN. If the audience had felt that the father's love wasn't worth winning, for all that he was a repressed Puritan, the whole film wouldn't have worked, and young master Dean wouldn't have become a star, let alone a posthumous legend. (How well I remember Ray's caustic comments about JD. All those years after the fact, he was still smarting over some of the kid's unprofessional antics...)

(I haven't seen 49th in a long time now, but wasn't that religious farmer referred to above played by Nial MacGinnis, of CURSE OF THE DEMON fame? I suppose I could check IMDB...)

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2007 - 3:07 AM   
 By:   Montana Dave   (Member)

I've still never seen PEEPING TOM. Maybe I should leave well enough alone, I wonder...

Thanks for your perceptive memories of Ray, Montana. I think the character in 49th P. was a rare, perhaps the ONLY, opportunity he ever had in film to play just a "regular guy." And of course, being Canadian himself, he must have relished it.

He was respected by many, underrated by some. I still think he's never been given his due for EAST OF EDEN. If the audience had felt that the father's love wasn't worth winning, for all that he was a repressed Puritan, the whole film wouldn't have worked, and young master Dean wouldn't have become a star, let alone a posthumous legend. (How well I remember Ray's caustic comments about JD. All those years after the fact, he was still smarting over some of the kid's unprofessional antics...)

(I haven't seen 49th in a long time now, but wasn't that religious farmer referred to above played by Nial MacGinnis, of CURSE OF THE DEMON fame? I suppose I could check IMDB...)


I recognised that actor immediately as the one from 'Curse of the Demon', but he played a Nazi here, one who wanted to change and live simply with those in that community and become their new baker. The actor who's name escapes me played the 'leader' of the religious sect named 'Peter'. Incidentaly, the music's shift in tone from 'chase and pursuit' to the simple pastorals of that religious community was quite lovely and R.V.Williams score here was touching.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2007 - 5:31 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)



I recognised that actor immediately as the one from 'Curse of the Demon', but he played a Nazi here, one who wanted to change and live simply with those in that community and become their new baker. The actor who's name escapes me played the 'leader' of the religious sect named 'Peter'. Incidentaly, the music's shift in tone from 'chase and pursuit' to the simple pastorals of that religious community was quite lovely and R.V.Williams score here was touching.


Niall McGinnis was of course a fine character actor in dozens of flicks since. You'll remember him in the likes of 'The War Lord', as Odins the village elder, or as Sir Mellyagaunce, the side-kick knight in 'Knights of the Round Table' who mournfully delivered the worst death line in Hollywood history (good enough ipse dixit for FSM to put it in the FSM CD sleeve 'quote' box), "I've blustered my last bluster ...." Olivier had him somewhere in 'Henry V' did he not?

Anton Walbrook was the 'Peter' patriarch, a Powell/Pressburger regular, most notably in 'Col. Blimp' and 'Red Shoes'.

Massey, as you know, begat a whole dynasty of family actors since. Wasn't Anna in 'Peeping Tom'?

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2007 - 1:11 PM   
 By:   Montana Dave   (Member)



Niall McGinnis was of course a fine character actor in dozens of flicks since. You'll remember him in the likes of 'The War Lord', as Odins the village elder, or as Sir Mellyagaunce, the side-kick knight in 'Knights of the Round Table' who mournfully delivered the worst death line in Hollywood history (good enough ipse dixit for FSM to put it in the FSM CD sleeve 'quote' box), "I've blustered my last bluster ...." Olivier had him somewhere in 'Henry V' did he not?

Anton Walbrook was the 'Peter' patriarch, a Powell/Pressburger regular, most notably in 'Col. Blimp' and 'Red Shoes'.

Massey, as you know, begat a whole dynasty of family actors since. Wasn't Anna in 'Peeping Tom'?


ANTON WALBROOK! Thanks for jogging my memory. He was so 'contemplative' in this film, as though thinking over each sentence or word that he was going to utter a good 10 seconds before uttering it. It worked well for him.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2007 - 1:55 PM   
 By:   Pete Apruzzese   (Member)



I have a theory as to the acclaim of PT. It has to do with snobishness. It was derided upon it's release and barely distributed. So, of course it must be a case of a great artist being ahead of his time and suffering from the no-nothings. Right?
Wrong.
brm


Actually, Peeping Tom is a brilliant film, way ahead of its time, even today. It's certainly an uncomfortable film to watch, saying what it does about the actual art of viewing a film and about an audience. The "home movie" sequences are particularly rough viewing, being as we've all known kids who had cruel parents. There's a despairing air of sadness in the film - not unlike The Red Shoes.

The reason Peeping Tom was hated upon its release is that it IS nasty, it is supposed to be. Hitchcock was rightfully worried that Psycho's release in Great Britain would cause a similar reaction, but since the critics had already sharpened their knives on Powell, he was spared a lot of it.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2007 - 1:55 PM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

Walbrook was also memorable as the lead in the spooky Thorold Dickinson version of THE QUEEN OF SPADES.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2007 - 2:16 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

McGinnis played the title role in MARTIN LUTHER, written by my late friend Allan Sloane, who explained to me that it was "designed to be shown on sheets in churches," but became a surprise international theatrical hit in the 50's. A follow-up project for the Lutherans, about life in Communist Germany, QUESTION SEVEN, also written by Allan, was a big flop "and was only shown on sheets in churches."

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2007 - 2:36 PM   
 By:   Montana Dave   (Member)

This is just a guess here folks, but I've a theory as to WHY Britain's 'The 49th Parallel' was retitled 'The Invaders' for American audiences in 1941: Most Americans are IDIOTS when it comes to Geography, they couldn't point out Wyoming from Iowa! Much less the Geographical Parallel that separates Canada from The United States. This is just a guess on my part, but I don't think I'm too far off. And Americans have been 'dumbed-down' even more over the decades since.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2007 - 3:51 PM   
 By:   The_Mark_of_Score-O   (Member)

And maybe the U.S. distributor just thought that THE INVADERS was a more dramatic title (it is, but not necessarily a better title). But you're right: Americans are abysmally ignorant of everything of more consequence than American Idol, including the geography of the continent on which they live (if, indeed, they can even name the continent).


Actually, Peeping Tom is a brilliant film, way ahead of its time, even today. It's certainly an uncomfortable film to watch, saying what it does about the actual art of viewing a film and about an audience. The "home movie" sequences are particularly rough viewing, being as we've all known kids who had cruel parents. There's a despairing air of sadness in the film - not unlike The Red Shoes.

Words that apply to Billy Wilder's ACE IN THE HOLE, if you will, in spades.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2007 - 4:53 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

Come to think of it, McGinnis was Zeus in 'Jason and the Argonauts' alongside Honor Blackman as Hera (who's as beautiful today as she was then, given her age) and did he not play Menelaus in 'Helen of Troy'? He seems to cover the centuries.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2007 - 6:02 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)



Actually, Peeping Tom is a brilliant film, way ahead of its time, even today. It's certainly an uncomfortable film to watch, saying what it does about the actual art of viewing a film and about an audience. The "home movie" sequences are particularly rough viewing, being as we've all known kids who had cruel parents. There's a despairing air of sadness in the film - not unlike The Red Shoes.

The reason Peeping Tom was hated upon its release is that it IS nasty, it is supposed to be. Hitchcock was rightfully worried that Psycho's release in Great Britain would cause a similar reaction, but since the critics had already sharpened their knives on Powell, he was spared a lot of it.


The problem with the film SPOILER ALERT is that the murder sequences are ludicrous- using the tripod while the victims just stand there screaming, c'mon! They come across as something from a SCTV parody; think "Dr. Tongue" etc.

If a horror/suspense film isn't scary, it's a failure.

"nuff said

brm

please, never compare PT to PSYCHO smile

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2007 - 6:48 PM   
 By:   Pete Apruzzese   (Member)



please, never compare PT to PSYCHO smile


It's a completely valid comparison. smile Although the better comparison is to Rear Window, an equally disturbing film that tests the audience.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 6, 2007 - 1:07 AM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

So many fantastic moments in this film,...and, of course, the great scene with Massey on the train.

That is EXACTLY what came to my mind upon seeing this thread's title. 'S been ages since I've seen the film. Think last time was one of them "Cinema 13" jobs on Saturday night.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 6, 2007 - 1:21 AM   
 By:   Montana Dave   (Member)

So many fantastic moments in this film,...and, of course, the great scene with Massey on the train.

That is EXACTLY what came to my mind upon seeing this thread's title. 'S been ages since I've seen the film. Think last time was one of them "Cinema 13" jobs on Saturday night.


Do try to see the film again in The Criterion double dvd set. For first timers (like myself) I found the film extremely intoxicating and exhilarating! For those planning on a revisit, it surely must be like meeting 'an old friend'. The film is from 1941, and yet, is so wonderfully 'fresh', it's themes play out today in these troublesome and fearful times as though it were made only recently. Those are the markings of a FILM MASTERPIECE!

 
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