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I can't imagine WB licencing Superman to another company. Not in a million years.
Besides which, Criterion ain't all that these days...
Agreed. Expanding on that, I can’t see any of Warner’s DC films being licensed elsewhere anytime soon. Then again, I had the same thought about Disney and their animated films, but then Criterion announced Wall-E earlier this month. That being said, I still think it’s a long shot in regards to a Criterion Superman.
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Criterion editions of STAND AND DELIVER, THE SAINT OF FORT WASHINGTON, and Peter Weir's FEARLESS would be a dream!
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And indeed, Criterion is a "boutique" label; by their own account, they focus on "restoring" and "distributing" classic historic and contemporary films.
SUPERMAN is a big box office mainstream movie from a huge DC/WB franchise. It's easy for WB to throw out a new SUPERMAN restoration super-douper 4K or whatnot set any time they wish. There is no "need" for Criterion to do it, no need for Criterion to license it from WB, and no need for WB to license it to Criterion. They would compete with themselves, as SUPERMAN has been continually released by WB in various forms.
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I've got the 4K videodisc from Warners.
There's utterly no need for a "making of"-style release of Superman: The Movie. I'm as big a fan of this movie as there could be, and I have no desire to know any behind-the-scenes particulars.
Let's leave this one alone, shall we?
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If there's anything that needs the Criterion Treatment it's the original Star Wars.
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Posted: |
Sep 22, 2022 - 3:21 PM
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By: |
JThree
(Member)
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What exactly are you hoping for with a Criterion version of Superman?
Good question.
Although I cannot speak for Jim Bowers & Jay Towers (Superman historians and hosts of the CapedWonder Superman Podcast), Bill Williams (another Superman historian), and Mike Matessino (all of whom I know really well), I can say there is a wealth of material related to SUPERMAN (publicity materials, additional outtakes, and even radio & TV spots and theatrical trailers that have never been released on home video)—some of this material is curated by Bowers himself for his web site, capedwonder.com .
There is also an audio commentary for the 3-hour TV version Bowers and Towers recorded that can be utilized for a potential Criterion edition (and by the way, this commentary is available on the Caped Wonder.com web site).
And of course, an opportunity to utilize an isolated score track for the TV cut (including the dialed-out musical cues).
So there is indeed more material out there that one can hope for in a Criterion edition of SUPERMAN. The next call, of course, is up to the powers that be at Criterion and WB.
OK. There's some good extras there.
---Jthree
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Posted: |
Sep 22, 2022 - 5:22 PM
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By: |
nuts_score
(Member)
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See, I'm not talking about genre fare, but how much of an artistic stamp the director holds. Criterion rarely, if ever "pushes out" mainstream genre fare unless there's an auteur of some sort behind it, or a cult position somehow. Richard Donner falls in the same category as directors like Ron Howard and Jon Favreau -- very capable 'journeymen' that make some good movies, but with few identifiable thematic and visual traits throughout their filmography.
It has nothing to do with 'superiority' or 'class', but focus on a particular type of cinema. This has been Criterion's focus since day 1.
They just released Devil In a Blue Dress earlier this Summer. Directed by Carl Franklin, arguably one of the great Hollywood journeyman directors of the modern era. The Infernal Affairs trilogy, from great Chinese journeymen Andrew Lau and Alan Mak. And many, many more. A director is a director. They either contribute to a good movie or they don't.
Their mission statement, from their website: "Since 1984, the Criterion Collection has been dedicated to publishing important classic and contemporary films from around the world in editions that offer the highest technical quality and award-winning, original supplements. No matter the medium—from laserdisc to DVD, Blu-ray, 4K Ultra HD to streaming—Criterion has maintained its pioneering commitment to presenting each film as its maker would want it seen, in state-of-the-art restorations with special features designed to encourage repeated watching and deepen the viewer’s appreciation of the art of film."
Criterion specializes in no particular type of cinema, because they celebrate all of cinema.
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Posted: |
Sep 23, 2022 - 1:42 AM
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By: |
Thor
(Member)
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I don't know if we're talking past each other or if you're creating your own alternate reality in your head, nuts_score, but again: While it's true that Criterion branches out beyond arthouse cinema or important historical films now and then, the few contemporary, mainstream Hollywood movies that they have in their catalogue of some 1500-ish titles, are either by strong auteurs or have some sort of cult position (THE ROCK, ARMAGEDDON, ROBOCOP, WALL-E, THIS IS SPINAL TAP, TRAFFIC etc.). Donner is no auteur and SUPERMAN is too popular to be a cult film. In fact, I can't think of a single Donner film that would be of interest to them. And that's OK -- there are plenty of other, more mainstream labels that are; that also can offer good production values, and that have.
By the way, SUPERMAN has come a long way in terms of how it's presented -- in fact, one of the very first DVDs I got was a bare-bones, shoddy-looking release from Scanbox, back in the early 2000s. And now there are super-duper Blu-ray releases out there, with every nut and bolt imaginable. And all achieved without the aid of Criterion.
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I've got the 4K videodisc from Warners.
There's utterly no need for a "making of"-style release of Superman: The Movie. I'm as big a fan of this movie as there could be, and I have no desire to know any behind-the-scenes particulars.
Let's leave this one alone, shall we?
Not sure quite how to understand that comment? I mean "let's leave this one alone"? SUPERMAN has had some of the most "behind-the-scenes" coverage of any movie ever made, even in 1978 when the movie was still made[ there were special behind the scenes coverage in magazines. There are so many "behing-the-scenes" and "making-offs" of Richard Donner's SUPERMAN, including even footage of screen tests by the dentist of the producer's wife. I'm sure there is room for more, but there is already a plethora of background and behind the scenes material on various releases of SUPERMAN.
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Posted: |
Sep 23, 2022 - 11:15 AM
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By: |
nuts_score
(Member)
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I don't know if we're talking past each other or if you're creating your own alternate reality in your head, nuts_score, but again: While it's true that Criterion branches out beyond arthouse cinema or important historical films now and then, the few contemporary, mainstream Hollywood movies that they have in their catalogue of some 1500-ish titles, are either by strong auteurs or have some sort of cult position (THE ROCK, ARMAGEDDON, ROBOCOP, WALL-E, THIS IS SPINAL TAP, TRAFFIC etc.). Donner is no auteur and SUPERMAN is too popular to be a cult film. In fact, I can't think of a single Donner film that would be of interest to them. And that's OK -- there are plenty of other, more mainstream labels that are; that also can offer good production values, and that have.
I think it has more to do with talking past one another. I think auteur theory is bullshit in general, but Criterion does have about 1200 movies to their release label and I think you'd be surprised to discover just how many are from filmmakers not too different than Donner. Especially when you consider their foreign releases. And then you cite "historical" films as part of the pedigree, which Superman: The Movie, is by many accords. They don't just release and celebrate cult films. And they don't just release "good" films. There are plenty of subjectively bad titles in the catalogue.
As for your inability to think of a single Donner film worthy of a release on their boutique label, I've got a handful I find worthy of a nice treatment here: The Omen, Superman: The Movie, Lethal Weapon, Ladyhawke, and Radio Flyer. All great films and all to be recognized by either a mainstream or a cult audience. Let's celebrate all movies, not just those we can stick our nose into the air to claim we have watched to be superior.
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Posted: |
Sep 23, 2022 - 1:28 PM
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By: |
Col. Flagg
(Member)
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Auteur theory exists, and I subscribe to it fully.
Now might be the right time to interject that auteur theory, speaking practically, is not a monolith. In practical fact, the auteur vs. "journeyman" argument proceeds from the false assumption that it's binary situation – which it is decidedly not. It's a greyscale, not black and white. Any of one's favourite filmmakers who've made their careers on the basis of publicizing themselves as auteurs (or allowing those to brand them as such) know this privately.
You can't really make the auteur theory stick 100 percent, because to do that, the person who invented and manufactured the motion picture camera would also have to invented and manufactured the film that went into it, not to mention overseeing countless millennia where the minerals that made up those inventions developed.
Hence why we can't argue that Richard Donner – a talented man who didn't journey with a single composer but DID imbue most of his films with a specific heart, point of view, recurring themes, camera and cutting style – wouldn't be admissible to this club.
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