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 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 4:08 AM   
 By:   johnbijl   (Member)

Very, very interesting project.

But damn, $ 27 in shipping even for book and cd, is a lot of money.


That cost is just about right.

The new international shipping rates and rather ugly.

Ford A. Thaxton



I know. It still is a lot of money.

We could almost buy our own ship for that.

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 4:27 AM   
 By:   Thomas   (Member)

16USD to ship internationally. For 1 CD. Crazy money! Rules me out of even considering buying it, unfortunately.

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 4:34 AM   
 By:   Julian K   (Member)

Will this be available via SAE?

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 4:42 AM   
 By:   Gold Digger   (Member)

Fantastic achievement by John O'Callaghan. But not for me. Damn shame Varese could not have been open to letting him work on a new master of the original soundtrack. Clearly John is passionate and extremely knowledgable when it comes to this score through his book and what he did here. He would be the perfect producer of a new edition. Perhaps Nick Redman and Robert Townson can think about this score being restored and giving John a call.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 5:07 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

Fantastic achievement by John O'Callaghan. But not for me. Damn shame Varese could not have been open to letting him work on a new master of the original soundtrack. Clearly John is passionate and extremely knowledgable when it comes to this score through his book and what he did here. He would be the perfect producer of a new edition. Perhaps Nick Redman and Robert Townson can think about this score being restored and giving John a call.

Agreed! The original session tapes, mixed with Mr O'Callaghan's immense background knowledge, would be a wonderful thing.

If this had been me... and it obviously wasn't... I'd have recorded maybe one or two cues and packaged them WITH the book as an audio demonstration of how the orchestral parts were written, and the unusual acoustic instruments deployed. An "intellectual exercise" if you will. The book could have referred directly to the disc, etc. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, of course. I know that the recording concept came later.

I would welcome an effort to mix these new acoustic elements with a fresh orchestral recording.

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 8:32 AM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

You know, I had pretty much the same negative reaction to this project when John O'Callaghan first let me in on it, but I've had two months to think about it, so I want to ask everyone here a question that I hope I can get an honest answer to. Jerry Goldsmith was himself a certified electronics junkie. He had an elaborate home studio filled always with the latest gadgets, and he fully embraced them to the extent, as everyone knows, of actually using them in his movie scores. If Goldsmith were still alive, tomorrow he would be eighty-seven years old. If he were at that age still interested in re-recording one of his most famous scores so that it could be heard in the best sonics possible, it's not outside the laws of probability that he would choose to do exactly what John O'Callaghan has done with APES. So, be honest everybody, if Goldsmith were still alive and had done this CD, what would your reaction be then?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 8:54 AM   
 By:   matthewhightshoe   (Member)

I have not heard the CD yet. I will be getting it regardless of all the negativity being spewed in the thread. No matter how much any number of the posters will criticize this effort, just remember there are FAR WORSE efforts out there that (most likely) more money was dumped into and floundered.

I pose this question: Which would you rather have, this interpretation and realization of TPOTA or that unfortunate effort by Varese of re-recording Patton and a few cues from Tora, Tora, Tora?

I see many people complaining about Varese's lack of involvement yet it would seem not enough people have done their research to realize that Varese was not the original label to release this score. There have been several before it including our beloved Intrada (1992) which was simply the LP program put on CD and with the inclusion of "The Hunt" which had not been released on any album program prior to 1992. Yes, Varese gave us SOOOOOO much more and the sound quality is unfortunately not the best, it could be worse, it could be The Satan Bug archival with SFX mixed in, The Chairman, Ransom (1975).

People are complaining that it is not a real orchestra, well, where was your donation to help out? Where was Intrada, La-La-Land, FSM, Quartet, Music Box, BSX, Kritzerland or even Tadlow? Maybe they were never contacted, or, maybe they were and declined. In any respect, even if and when a new release of TPOTA score is actualized (whether via the original masters or a completely new recording with a full orchestra), there will still be something for people to not be satisfied with.

Be appreciative of such an effort, even if it does not sound entirely like you want it too, nothing ever will. I have heard some Tadlow efforts on Goldsmith scores (Ransom 1975) that I could never warm up to as I have been holding onto that original 1975 performance (not the sound quality). There are definite differences in the performance and energy as well as the balance and depth of the piece that my ears still cannot adjust to. Yet, I am so happy that the cue (Skychaser) is what they chose to perform and while my ears will at some point come around and accept the recording, I think it was a wonderful effort. I feel this way about the Conan Barbarian by Tadlow and the upcoming Blue Max (The Retreat) as the xylophone part in the video recording is not as bouncy and playful and somewhat (intentionally) off as in the original recording which is what I like. The Tadlow version is a bit rushed and hurried. But I will still be buying the album despite this. It is just another interpretation. I do love The Salamander and that was a very close if not "spot on" effort of the original recording.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 9:04 AM   
 By:   matthewhightshoe   (Member)

@RoryR:

I posed a similar question as well but regarding which you would rather have, this effort or the Patton / Tora, Tora, Tora re-recording effort.

I know on Sum of All Fears Goldsmith mentions his demo mix versions of the ethnic instruments and some other sonic effects ended up being used as he had already established and had recorded the sound he wanted. He did not see any reason to try to recapture it on stage when he already had a version he liked on his computer in his studio.

Also, Goldsmith's own efforts at re-recording Total Recall's main theme (Opening Credits) has never been successfully achieved as it was heavy on the electronics and he chose to go with a more tradition symphonic interpretation. It is grinding on the ears as the slap stick and electronic support for the slapstick sound is replaced by a literal grinding metal sound -it sounds like a metal shovel being used to chip away at stone. And the opening synth part that plays an octave apart is replaced by flutes. It truly to me is on par with the original German recording of Clever Girl.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 9:14 AM   
 By:   matthewhightshoe   (Member)

Just ordered the book and the CD. Will give my review when it comes in (of the CD).

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 9:18 AM   
 By:   Dadid L   (Member)

- Goldsmith had never rerecorded a symphonic composition with synths. I don't buy the "what if" thing in this case.

- The OST is great and avaible.

So what is the point of this recording ?

I would have liked an orchestral re-recording produced by Varese or others, featuring the talents of John Callaghan, or a real transcription, for pianos and percussions per exemple. It would have been interresting !

This said, every effort is welcome, and the hommage is apreciated.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 9:33 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

If Goldsmith were still alive, tomorrow he would be eighty-seven years old. If he were at that age still interested in re-recording one of his most famous scores so that it could be heard in the best sonics possible, it's not outside the laws of probability that he would choose to do exactly what John O'Callaghan has done with APES. So, be honest everybody, if Goldsmith were still alive and had done this CD, what would your reaction be then?

He would never have done it. Goldsmith resisted using electronics to replace the orchestra. They were always an addition to his orchestral pallette. He used them when he needed a particular colour or texture. Sometimes the film called for a colder, more alien sound. Other times an entirely synthetic sound (e.g. Runaway)

Planet Of The Apes was the intentional opposite of that - a fully acoustic score when electronics would be assumed. It was designed that way to fulfill the needs of the film. In the midst of the apparently alien world, the music evoked a certain comfort/familiarity - that which would lead us to the realisation that we were home all along. There is no way he'd have re-imagined it for electronics, just so that it sounded clean and digital.

So the question is irrelevant.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 9:36 AM   
 By:   GoblinScore   (Member)

Good point Rory, reminds me that Poledouris did say
he intended to do an electronically enhanced Conan recording, before his untimely passing. Would have been interesting!

Interesting & commendable experiment, I'm in, POTA,
Sean

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 9:48 AM   
 By:   Heath   (Member)

I'm all for virtually created film music productions like these, having done one commercially way back in 1992/93 (perhaps the first of its kind?). So congratulations to John O'Callaghan. Even with today's computer technology, this will have been very time consuming and hard to do - a LOT harder than doing it in real time with an actual orchestra. The only thing you save is money - and even that is a false economy if you were charging professional rates for a full midi studio in the time it would take. You have to do something like for love and hope you recoup later.

There's no reason a recording like this cannot co-exist with further live orchestral versions. The only question is what sample libraries do you use? There are some INCREDIBLE libraries out there today that most folks here would be hard pressed to distinguish from the real thing, but they cost too and you still have to put A LOT of time into making them "breathe".

Anyway, congratulations again to Mr O'Callaghan.

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 9:50 AM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

John O'Callaghan says in his book that the now out-of-print 1992 Intrada CD "is the only place [where] you can find every measure of 'The Hunt." And he goes on to compare the Intrada and Varese releases saying of the "Main Title": "Douglas Fake's mix makes the electric harp more prominent with the violin pizzicato during mm.8-12. It provides a more balanced sound here -- the electric harp feeds back nicely in the Echoplex and resonates in eerie, ringing echoes." This is not the case with the Varese 1997 CD. Of "The Searchers" cue on the Varese CD, he says, "The Echoplex tracks are not balanced or edited the same as they are in the Mono Film Mix." Getting back to "The Hunt," O'Callaghan says of the Intrada CD, "From mm.106A-120, Dodge's Death, the percussion tracks are missing (i.e. Wood Drums, Bass Drums, Cuica)." But on the Varese CD, "the master 35mm elements for "The Hunt," are damaged and measure 106A (which is a 3/4 bar) is missing. A "bump" or splice noise can be heard at the spot; however, all of the percussion tracks here are present and accounted for." And of "The Cave" cue he writes, "The high level of the Echoplex trailing the angklungs appears only on the Project 3 LP/CD and the Intrada CD release only...." Of the 1997 Varese release in general, O'Calaghan says in his book, "The album credits state that the music was remixed from the original 35mm film elements in the North Room Zanuck Theater, in July 1995. Overall, I would rate the sound quality as 'good.' It's very easy to chalk up this evaluation to the age, condition of the materials and the restoration technologies available back in 1995, but, (and I don't mean to sound hypercritical) this doesn't explain everything about the CD. This new mix does exhibit some basic flaws that run throughout its entirety. Most notably, the violin section sounds very thin, even though it was a sixteen player section of a fifty-nine member orchestra." And, "Another problem area is a band of low frequencies, around 200Hz, that are broadly thinned out, resulting in the CD delivering less body or oomph." And of the original Project 3 LP and the Intrada CD, he says, "...these older albums have a completely different sonic quality and somewhat fuller character."

All of this makes me believe that Goldsmith himself would be dissatisfied with what is currently available of the OST recordings of PLANET OF THE APES, and so I think it a little boorish to knock this new release so negatively as some have. But then, no one has listened to it fully yet, not even me. I had to order it yesterday like everyone else.

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 10:23 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

Yeah, almost all music from the Fox archive sounds like garbage, unfortunately.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 10:54 AM   
 By:   Chris Avis   (Member)

You know, I think the reception to this would have been much kinder had it been initially bundled with the book (with a higher price point to the book) and billed as kind of an academic exercise to help understand the score. Sort of like Doug Adams' Lord of the Rings book with its rarities archive. As a standalone recording, it'll inevitably draw direct comparisons with the original OST and other, more expensive re-recordings.

Chris

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 11:06 AM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

...., one of the most striking things about the score (and something Goldsmith was always quick/proud to point out) is that it is fully acoustic....
!


I thought I had put this canard to bed in a previous post on this score ...:
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=75064&forumID=1&archive=0

NO, IT IS NOT FULLY ACOUSTIC!
Jerry used electric guitar and echoplex (which some here did not realize was an electronic device) to create his classic score.

Have a nice day!
smile
brm

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 11:30 AM   
 By:   johnbijl   (Member)

...., one of the most striking things about the score (and something Goldsmith was always quick/proud to point out) is that it is fully acoustic....
!


I thought I had put this canard to bed in a previous post on this score ...:
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=75064&forumID=1&archive=0

NO, IT IS NOT FULLY ACOUSTIC!
Jerry used electric guitar and echoplex (which some here did not realize was an electronic device) to create his classic score.

Have a nice day!
smile
brm



So even if it was not fully acoustic, I think the point is that there weren't any *electronic* instruments involved, just electric instruments. If you're splitting hairs, split them right.

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 11:36 AM   
 By:   The Mutant   (Member)

If Goldsmith were still alive, tomorrow he would be eighty-seven years old. If he were at that age still interested in re-recording one of his most famous scores so that it could be heard in the best sonics possible, it's not outside the laws of probability that he would choose to do exactly what John O'Callaghan has done with APES. So, be honest everybody, if Goldsmith were still alive and had done this CD, what would your reaction be then?

He would never have done it. Goldsmith resisted using electronics to replace the orchestra. They were always an addition to his orchestral pallette. He used them when he needed a particular colour or texture. Sometimes the film called for a colder, more alien sound. Other times an entirely synthetic sound (e.g. Runaway)

Planet Of The Apes was the intentional opposite of that - a fully acoustic score when electronics would be assumed. It was designed that way to fulfill the needs of the film. In the midst of the apparently alien world, the music evoked a certain comfort/familiarity - that which would lead us to the realisation that we were home all along. There is no way he'd have re-imagined it for electronics, just so that it sounded clean and digital.

So the question is irrelevant.


I agree 100%.

He wouldn't have used a synthetic orchestra like this. No way.

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2016 - 11:37 AM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

...., one of the most striking things about the score (and something Goldsmith was always quick/proud to point out) is that it is fully acoustic....
!


I thought I had put this canard to bed in a previous post on this score ...:
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=75064&forumID=1&archive=0

NO, IT IS NOT FULLY ACOUSTIC!
Jerry used electric guitar and echoplex (which some here did not realize was an electronic device) to create his classic score.

Have a nice day!
smile
brm



... If you're splitting hairs, split them right.


What are you implyin'?
Soundz like an "artful smear" to me

LOL!

 
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