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I believe you mentioned that "The Future" was not used in the film (hope I'm not mistaken). Do you know what scene that cue was written for?
Chris, most of the data we got to look at placed it as coming between "Children in Bondage" and "Gates of Paris," where it falls on the new CD. That puts it between 37:10 and 42:11 in the film. It likely should also come before the little cue Saracen Ride, further limiting that zone to between 37:10 and 39:37. There is a scene around a campfire at night in that area where I laid in the music, and it works well, tonally. The scene is about what they will or won't do (in, you know...). It's a good option.
The other option is that, like the last 2/3 of the cue The Dress, it's for a scene cut from the final movie.
Much less likely is that it goes somewhere else in the film altogether. As much as is wacky about this score and film, the sequencing of the cues across data sources is pretty consistent.
Thank you for the detailed information, David! This is very helpful. I will use your approximate timings and experiment, beginning with the campfire scene and the "future" conversation. Many years ago I remember trying to cue up "Final Fight." I can't claim to have been absolutely precise, but I think I was in the ballpark. I recall the scene absolutely taking on a new life. To me, what seemed like a somewhat tepid sword fight without music was suddenly more powerful.
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LOL. Once more unto the breach…
NICE! This is very clean, legible, but it also has some graphical style.
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It looks like it's for a Rozsa or Kaper disc.
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That's two literally eye-watering attempts to fix something that isn't broken on the least important facet of the album.
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Paul Verhoeven would have probably hired Basil Poledouris:
https://cnmsarchive.wordpress.com/2015/01/28/paul-verhoeven-on-basil-poledouris/
"Will you hire Basil again?
Yes, sure, but not for every movie. I have always tried to work with a couple of photographers and a couple of composers; I feel one is more suited for this movie and one is better for another movie. For THE CRUSADES, for example, Basil would be an excellent choice."
Actually Goldsmith traveled to European libraries to read-up on medieval music in preparation for Crusade, which suggests he was asked (and likely signed) to score the movie. Also, Robert Townson was planning to produce a documentary on scoring a movie, which would have followed Goldsmith throughout the process of working on Crusade.
Unfortunately Carolco decided to make Cutthroat Island instead. 
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Many years ago I remember trying to cue up "Final Fight." I can't claim to have been absolutely precise, but I think I was in the ballpark. I recall the scene absolutely taking on a new life. To me, what seemed like a somewhat tepid sword fight without music was suddenly more powerful.
When we were asked to look at this, I lined up all of the music with the film, and learned a few things.
1. With the exception of The Dress, all of the dialed out parts worked pretty well under the parts of the film where they were dialed out. In The Dress's case, a scene is clearly now missing, that or Goldsmith underscored only the first half of a jousting match with tentative and romantic music.
2. The majority of the cues were cut here and there, sometimes just by a measure or two in different spots. I replicated those cuts as well as I could hear them, to note what had been done. Overall, the previous CD releases already had over 14 minutes of music that had been cut or dialed out of the film. Final Fight would likely have also needed some snips to fit, but as time for analysis was running out, I didn't tackle that.
3. Not all, but the majority of the cues have a different tempo in the film. Most run faster, a couple slower, and one or two play at the same speed. This is not a PAL to NTSC or a 44100/48000 conversion issue, or the rates would be the same from cue to cue, so this music was massaged in a number of ways to be made to fit the film and still sound musical, without a bunch of horrible edits.
If you do work on Final Fight, I would look for the obvious spots that line up musically, film to track, then find good spots to snip measures (usually where there is some repetition), or if you have a good tempo shifter, try that. The scene is shorter, but not by very much. Given how the rest of the music was surgically altered (not butchered - it was usually done quite musically!), no options are off the table.
If you email the Goldsmith Odyssey, I can reply back with my notes, in case that would help or just be interesting to you.
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"Actually Goldsmith travelled to European libraries to read-up on medieval music in preparation for Crusade.."
------------------------
Int..music library...somewhere in Europe...
JG "Excuse me, can you tell me where your books and tomes on ancient and medieval music in olde European times are, please?"
Desk Clerk "Certainly Sir, Second aisle, first column"
JG "Thank you. And where will I find the books on Medieval Synth Farts and Ancient Silly Noises?"
Desk Clerk "?????!!!!!"
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Order Date.......Fulfillment Status
May 01, 2021...unfulfilled
That'll be the last time I pay extra for faster shipping...
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Message from Varese:
"We're very sorry but there appears to be a rights issue with the Lionheart CD at the moment. I will reach out to my team to glean any additional information.
Thank you for your patience and apologies again for the delay."
WHAT?!?! I sure hope this is a mistake; after all the CD is still up for purchase on the website.
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Sounds like they might now need to add even MORE names to the credits crammed on the back!
Word on the street is Varese liked Spinmeister's album back cover so much they're going to reprint with it.
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Posted: |
May 7, 2021 - 9:57 AM
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By: |
Nono
(Member)
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Paul Verhoeven would have probably hired Basil Poledouris:
https://cnmsarchive.wordpress.com/2015/01/28/paul-verhoeven-on-basil-poledouris/
"Will you hire Basil again?
Yes, sure, but not for every movie. I have always tried to work with a couple of photographers and a couple of composers; I feel one is more suited for this movie and one is better for another movie. For THE CRUSADES, for example, Basil would be an excellent choice."
Actually Goldsmith traveled to European libraries to read-up on medieval music in preparation for Crusade, which suggests he was asked (and likely signed) to score the movie. Also, Robert Townson was planning to produce a documentary on scoring a movie, which would have followed Goldsmith throughout the process of working on Crusade.
Unfortunately Carolco decided to make Cutthroat Island instead.
I didn't know that a project had actually begun in the early 90s. A Jerry Goldsmith score with true researches on medieval music could have been interesting, indeed!
If the project had started again after STARSHIP TROOPERS, and considering what Paul Verhoeven told in Soundtrack Magazine in 1997, his choice could have been different at that time, though.
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considering what Paul Verhoeven told in Soundtrack Magazine in 1997, his choice could have been different at that time, though.
What did Mr. Verhoeven say to Soundtrack Magazine?
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