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Posted: |
Apr 8, 2013 - 5:56 PM
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By: |
mtjs
(Member)
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Marcato said:
Moonraker gunbarrel is identical to other BARRY gunbarrel post Conney with some minor changes arround here and there during the series of films.
to be aware of when talking the mooraker
the sound - since it was recorded in another studio there seems to be a different kind of sound, maybe BARRY choosed the OST cues becaurse they sounded like he wanted it to be while the other pieces did not sound that well
Alex Klein said:
That "screechy, raspy" sound you mention led me to believe that the MOONRAKER gunbarrel had a more dissonant writing in the woodwinds. However, someone in this thread has said it is only a matter of instrumentation. I am still not convinced.
I would argue that the Moonraker gunbarrel is the most distinctive sounding of the gunbarrel cues of the Barry-composed Bond scores beginning with The Man with the Golden Gun. The riff is played by strings (don't know which exactly), clarinets, horns and trumpets. The end of each phrase has a rather quirky, dead sound to it, provided by horns and trumpets playing the last four notes of each bar in unison. As far as I know, this is the only gunbarrel with this arrangement.
I'd love to find out exactly what is being played by each instrument in the first two bars. I know from a reliable source that the chord is E min maj 9th, which I agree with, but I have the impression there might a chord change in the second bar, to E min 9th. I think there are trumpets, trombones, horns, tuba, flutes and bass drum. There might be some very, very dry strings too.
Marcato said:
Gunbarrel break-down - only what is changed during the films
GOLDEN GUN xylophone and guitar included - bass drum can also be heard (toned down in later films)
MOONRAKER - clarinet play bond theme (was not used untell TLDs gunbarrel but was used in May day jumps)
OCTO and VIEW - i believe these have the same instrumentation only differenciated by their performances and recording
TLD - used the clarinet here on the bond theme
More differences:
In Octopussy, the riff is played by strings, clarinet and flute, and there is a tambourine in the background. In A View to a Kill, the strings and the tambourine are gone. In OP, the triangle plays groups of three sixteenth notes separated by a beat and a half, whereas in AVTAK, it plays constant sixteenth notes.
In The Man with the Golden Gun, there are tom toms in the first two bars, as well as ride cymbal playing along with tambourine, giving the piece a busy sound.
In any case, as expected, every gunbarrel cue reflects the instrumentation choices of the rest of the respective score.
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Thinking of the fact that we'll never get to hear TMWTGG, TSWLM, Moonraker, Octopussy and AVTAK makes me ill.
For some reason I feel as if re-recordings (along the lines of RAISE THE TITANIC and SOMEWHERE IN TIME) would work well for the Barry material but not TSWLM. The latter would be harder to re-capture, precisely because it was less timeless and more of the moment.
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Although John Barry's music is reportedly not complicated to transcribe, not complicated for players to read and play, I wouldn't underestimate how tricky it might be to get the right sound.
I listened to the recording of that BFI event where musicians discuss Barry and Bond. The musicians make the point that 'the Bond sound' is not just created by simply reading the notes off the page, but also by the particular ways Barry asked people like Derek Watkins to play them. It's as much about the direction to the players as is the 'script' (score) they're playing from. Barry was reportedly very tenacious and exacting in getting the sound he wanted. The playing nuances may be the difference that makes the difference and those playing nuances might be harder to replicate than we appreciate.
That said, I confess again I say this as a layman taking in information rather than as an informed musician.
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Resolved: If the OST session tapes are in good shape, there's no beating them. Debate may proceed. (Kidding.)
I'm sure Stephen is right, especially for exacting fans like himself. For me, the City of Prague Moonraker and AVTAK cues are pretty good ("Wine with Stacy/Fanfare" really makes my day), so I imagine whole scores done like that and think I'd be fine.
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I just want to add ... I didn't say what I said to put anybody off a re-recording because I'd be as enthusiastic as anyone to get a re-recording.
I only said it in response to the comment that only SPY would be difficult to recreate the original sound of.
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A french article from "l'écran fantastique" by Bertrand Borie (a journalist who had the good fortune of attending the sessions) stated in 1979 that the score was nearly an hour long.
Does anyone have a translation of this article?
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Would you be willing to send me a scan or transcript?
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I got a return communication from andy b on the possible MOONRAKER recording. He reads as very determined to pursue this and delighted to hear from us. He had to shoot down some of my grandiose proposals, but if the kudos greeting THE SALAMANDER recording are true, we should be in for something special.
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Posted: |
Apr 9, 2013 - 6:02 PM
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By: |
Mr. Shark
(Member)
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I'd love to find out exactly what is being played by each instrument in the first two bars. I know from a reliable source that the chord is E min maj 9th, which I agree with, but I have the impression there might a chord change in the second bar, to E min 9th. I think there are trumpets, trombones, horns, tuba, flutes and bass drum. There might be some very, very dry strings too.
I can hear a D natural too, in the second bar. This might be a clever way of mirroring how first four notes of the Bond theme - E-G-D#-D.
The rawness of the "gunshot" chords in MR and OHMSS partly comes from the cluster voicing of the Em/Maj9th in the four trumpets (D#-F#-G-B and D#-E-F#-B respectively). along with how high the four trombones are playing in their registers.
Are the winds doubling an octave above? I doubt it, but I could be wrong.
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