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What make the first Superman the best?
It's idealistic and romantic tone.
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Posted: |
Oct 6, 2018 - 9:34 AM
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By: |
Jim Phelps
(Member)
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What make the first Superman the best?
It's idealistic and romantic tone.
To mature moviegoers in 1978, I'm sure the shift in tone was refreshing. After all, the 1970-75 period was one of cynicism, with political and institutional distrust abounding. While that backdrop resulted in some truly great cinema--certainly among the best ever produced in the USA--with the success of ROCKY and STAR WARS, the need for uplifting, escapist fare was apparent. SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE was another entry in this shift.
What makes the 1978 film so impressive to me is the handling of Superman's origin and early upbringing. Superman's origin is among the best ever conceived. However, I dislike, yet at the same time recognize *some* of the religious aspects associated with the character (and increasingly emphasized) in recent years. I actually like the recent films, but let's please save that for another thread. 
Donner and company did a great job with the Krypton and Smallville material, and they remain my favorite scenes in the film. Plus, the spot-on and above all, *sincere* performances from the entire cast--yes, I include Hackman and Beatty in this--successfully sold the sense of wonder and optimism with which Superman had always been imbued.
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Posted: |
Oct 6, 2018 - 9:52 AM
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By: |
Solium
(Member)
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What make the first Superman the best?
It's idealistic and romantic tone.
To mature moviegoers in 1978, I'm sure the shift in tone was refreshing. After all, the 1970-75 period was one of cynicism, with political and institutional distrust abounding. While that backdrop resulted in some truly great cinema--certainly among the best ever produced in the USA--with the success of ROCKY and STAR WARS, the need for uplifting, escapist fare was apparent. SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE was another entry in this shift.
What makes the 1978 film so impressive to me is the handling of Superman's origin and early upbringing. Superman's origin is among the best ever conceived. However, I dislike, yet at the same time recognize *some* of the religious aspects associated with the character (and increasingly emphasized) in recent years. I actually like the recent films, but let's please save that for another thread.
Donner and company did a great job with the Krypton and Smallville material, and they remain my favorite scenes in the film. Plus, the spot-on and above all, *sincere* performances from the entire cast--yes, I include Hackman and Beatty in this--successfully sold the sense of wonder and optimism with which Superman had always been imbued.
What makes it the best? It was approached as a serious drama which happens to have a Superhero in it.
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As for "The Making of Superman", are there any books on that very subject? A (quick) search yields several online articles, but a book on the topic would make for some no-doubt deee-lightful reading.
There was a paperback book, published by Warner Books at the time of the first film's release, entitled (doh) The Making of Superman The Movie by David Michael Petrou, who had a walk on part in the film, ISTR.
I've still got it somewhere but I don't recall it as being especially comprehensive; I'm sure the definitive book has yet to be published.
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Cinema Retro has an extensive retrospective in current issue.
No JW interview, alas .
Richard Donner bio has lotsa info.
I reviewed it and posted on Amazon.
Brm
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II had potential to be a serious film if they explored the consequences of Supe giving up his powers .
Lois was in love with Supe but ignored Clark. When Supe becomes mortal Lois would not be in love with him anymore! ThAT would have made for real drama.
But NOOOOOOOOOO!
I shoulda been a screenwriter.
Brm
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As for "The Making of Superman", are there any books on that very subject? A (quick) search yields several online articles, but a book on the topic would make for some no-doubt deee-lightful reading.
There was a paperback book, published by Warner Books at the time of the first film's release, entitled (doh) The Making of Superman The Movie by David Michael Petrou, who had a walk on part in the film, ISTR.
I've still got it somewhere but I don't recall it as being especially comprehensive; I'm sure the definitive book has yet to be published.
Thanks for that, but that's 40 years ago(!). Clearly it's time for an enterprising Superman fan to scratch out an updated and definitive book on the making of the film.
Paging Preston Neal Jones!
You really should get the CINEMA RETRO issh. Great article. An oral history with the cast and crew.
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I will pass on 50 people of the London High School Band playing John Williams Music...Thin Tinny Sound not my cup of tea. The Salkinds truly took the Cheap O way out!
Now I await John Williams and LSO Performing Superman
The Salkinds didn't necessarily take the cheap way out at all when it came to the production of the film. If they did, why did they reshoot so much of the movie? Anything they liked from the Donner shoot they kept in the film. They went to Paris, St Lucia. The music was given a budget, Ken Thorne had to work to a budget.
My only criticism was that they felt cutting Marlon from the film was a good idea -- it wasn't, certainly not artistically. Also, they cut the post-production time on Superman 2 so they could release it in late 1980 in Australia for their summer season. Some of the special effects are sloppy because of it.
All of you have to remember, Donner was filming Superman and Superman 2 at the Same Time. Donner had completed..depend on you talk to..70%-80% Of Superman 2. When Donner and Spengler And Salkinds could never patch things up..The Salkinds brought in lil dick Lester whom they still owed money to for Three and Four Musketeers...when the DGA stepped in and said Lester had to shoot 50% of reshoots to Superman 2 to get Directing Screen Credit..but Tge Salkinds did one thing right..Asked Richard Donner did he want Shared Directing Credit for Superman 2..Donner Refused..
Dick Lester took over from Guy Hamilton, who was there for a short period of time.
Renowed author George McDonald Fraser also did some script work.
The DGA didn't step in.
Lester, the writers and the producers sat down to watch what had been shot and decisions were made on what they felt was good material that should be kept:
They clearly didn't like the opening, for starters. They wanted to see Superman in action, because in the Donner version he doesn't appear in an action sequence until they get to Niagara Falls.
Obviously they couldn't use Marlon.
The Salkinds felt that the world destruction was too much too soon, they wanted to build up to it, hence the Houston sequence.
Remember..Geoffrey Unworth, Tom Mankiewicz (who saved Superman from Over wrought over camp mess from Mario Puzo...500 page script) most scripts are 150 pages. Stuart Baird ..were all there for Superman 2...So when they released Superman to rave reviews..and box office large amounts..The Salkinds Fired Donner..By Telegraph...How Nice!
The Mario Puzo script was rewritten by David and Leslie Newman, which is the one Donner read.
The script is available on-line.
A lot of material from that script survived in the Mankiewicz version. Tom restructured the script, added in the thematic material which wasn't in the Newman scripts. You have to give credit to all of the writers, but Mankiewicz got the film made.
Incorrect, most industry scripts are not necessarily 150 pages, and not really indicative of good or bad writing.
Lil dick Lester took over..and reshot 50% of Superman 2...But Since Lester and Thorne had worked before..I rather doubt Williams Recommended..Thorne. The Salkinds invited Williams to see the film and meet with Lil dick Lester..Williams wanted to use the LSO again...high price, and Williams salary ..of course high price after some Oscars and Grammies. Lol. But it was said..That Williams only had a very slight chance of composing new music..Since Raiders, coming up..and Boston Pops being a New Hire for Conductor...since it was a very limited budget..it was Lil dick Lester’s job to break the news to Williams..to save funds..No LSO. John Williams has said in interviews, that he was not happy how the Salkinds treated Richard Donner..and Told them all..No Thanks.
I don't think that is true. According to Ilya Salkind, John sat with Dick Lester to view a cut of the film, after the screening John told Ilya that he couldn't work with him. Ilya talks about it in an interview which isn't on-line anymore, unfortunately. I'm basing this on my memory of the interview and my personal conversations with Ilya.
So much for your "Salkinds are cheap..." statement. They were prepared to pay John Williams to score the movie, he apparently refused. How is that cheap????
Because Lester and Salkinds, to save more Funds, Told Williams that He could not use the LSO, and there would be requirement for new music, so what Thorne did, was what was described to Willuams..Just a Rehash Job.
Wow..I should write that Book! “ How The Salkinds Truly Fucked Up Superman! Lol.
And be prepared to be sued! Your views are distorted and you have no understanding of the industry.
It is funny ...that you didn’t watch any interview ..before you tried to throw me underneath the bus. You Fail.
one Trumptool can come in...and write whatever. Donner even speaks about the DGA and WGA ...how the stepped in about Mario Puzo and Robert Benton And David And Leslie Newman. Richard Donner brought to save Superman’s Screenplay..which Donner speaks about average length on a interview of being around 150 pages. The WGA would not give Tom Mank. Screenplay Credit, this is discussed in the Superman Video on how everything came together...Tom Mank was given Special Creative Consultant.
In order for Richard Lester to receive Directing Credit...The DGA told a Producers and Lester he had to shoot 50% of Superman 2. But what Donner says that the Salkinds came to him after Lester reshot 50% of Superman and would give Donner .also Directing Credit for Superman 2..Donner declined after seeing Lesters Version, f a joke of a joke, a parody of a parody. Donner did not want his name on it.
https://youtu.be/en7xGmL8_5I
https://youtu.be/g-tgqMbGulA
https://youtu.be/z6FJJ_kVENA
Well The DGA And WGA did step in.
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Posted: |
Oct 7, 2018 - 8:06 AM
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By: |
panavision
(Member)
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It is funny ...that you didn’t watch any interview ..before you tried to throw me underneath the bus. You Fail.
one Trumptool can come in...and write whatever. Donner even speaks about the DGA and WGA ...how the stepped in about Mario Puzo and Robert Benton And David And Leslie Newman. Richard Donner brought to save Superman’s Screenplay..which Donner speaks about average length on a interview of being around 150 pages. The WGA would not give Tom Mank. Screenplay Credit, this is discussed in the Superman Video on how everything came together...Tom Mank was given Special Creative Consultant.
In order for Richard Lester to receive Directing Credit...The DGA told a Producers and Lester he had to shoot 50% of Superman 2. But what Donner says that the Salkinds came to him after Lester reshot 50% of Superman and would give Donner .also Directing Credit for Superman 2..Donner declined after seeing Lesters Version, f a joke of a joke, a parody of a parody. Donner did not want his name on it.
https://youtu.be/en7xGmL8_5I
https://youtu.be/g-tgqMbGulA
https://youtu.be/z6FJJ_kVENA
Well The DGA And WGA did step in.
The WGA rules state the number of credited writers in the opening credits, this is true, but Donner also said that Tom did a lot more than just rewrite the script, hence the new credit. Tom deserved a writing credit, but he also deserved a bit more than that for the extra work he did.
Apparently, Lester came to Donner and asked if he wanted to share credit, Donner declined.
I'm not trying to throw you under the bus, but you kept getting stuff wrong. The Mario Puzo script hasn't leaked online yet, but you call it "campy". Even Tom Mankiewicz didn't read the Puzo script, or so he claimed. The Newmans did a lot of work, they shouldn't be so easily dismissed - their script is available online.
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Thank God Britains onerous tax rates prevented Hamilton from directing.
We would be watching THE SUPERMAN WITH THE GOLDEN COD PIECE instead of Donners epic!
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It is on sale now as an individual ish and/or part of a three issh scription
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There was a paperback book, published by Warner Books at the time of the first film's release, entitled (doh) The Making of Superman The Movie by David Michael Petrou, who had a walk on part in the film, ISTR.
I've still got it somewhere but I don't recall it as being especially comprehensive; I'm sure the definitive book has yet to be published.
I feel like I've already posted this here before, but someone loved the movie so much that he transcribed the entire Petrou book and posted it online:
http://www.superman1978.com/MAKING_OF_SUPERMAN_THE_MOVIE_BOOK/MAKING_OF_SUPERMAN_THE_MOVIE_BOOK_PETROU_1.html
This just seemed to be another good chance to express the idea that "We're not the only sick people, you see?" Now someone should write a book about that electric guitar bass slap in "Can You Read My Mind?"
What has a chewing gum wrapper got to do with the secrets of the universe?
Discuss.
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Do you realize the only "minority" character was a pimp?!
" That is a bad OUTfit!"
I think we need to cgi in some 'diversity' .
Ahaaaahaasas!
Brm
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