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With 14 days to raise the last $15,000, I don't see this happening.
Pity.
Cheers
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Doug says
6/21/2022
Next week’s new release is a tour-de-force of orchestral splendor. This is one to have. It’s a riveting score! And hopefully all of you Bernard Herrmann fans and loyal supporters of our re-recordings will help us reach our Kickstarter goal in the next couple of weeks. William Stromberg is extremely excited about conducting these two scores currently on deck. Fans know the fierce French horn-led excitement of On Dangerous Ground, balanced with those haunting viola d’amore passages, all of it just begging for a modern recording. And I have my heart set on getting The Man Who Knew Too Much available at last: That riveting “Prelude”, the subdued “search” material for kidnapped Hank, plus cues none of us have ever heard that were scored for the movie but never used. Even an alternate ending to the score that I’m anxious to discover. What a treat this premiere will be! Let’s make it happen. We’ve proven our reliability with these projects and our speed with getting them reconstructed, recorded by the Royal Scottish National Orchestra, edited, mastered, manufactured and into your hands. We’re very good at this. Help us keep our track record of success going!
http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8936
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With 14 days to raise the last $15,000, I don't see this happening.
Pity.
Cheers
well...rather than lose all the money that's already been donated, maybe the company will pony up the rest of it themselves... hope so.
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well...rather than lose all the money that's already been donated, maybe the company will pony up the rest of it themselves... hope so.
Kickstarter expressly forbids this (and apparently enforces it).
With 14 days to raise the last $15,000, I don't see this happening.
Pity.
You're a bit premature with the doom and gloom, IMO. It may be worth pointing out that at the corresponding point in the (ultimately successful, passing its goal by over $4000) Dial M for Murder campaign, things looked far more bleak. Roger Feigelson even wrote, "Half way through the campaign, but not quite halfway through the funding needed! Seems like it's going to be a long shot. What is interesting is if we had this in stock, we'd easily sell 1000-1500 in a couple of weeks. But asked to prepay (even at the slightly elevated price of $25), only 231 have backed so far. Those people who would readily buy it if it was in stock should step up now, otherwise it may never be in stock!"
This time halfway through the campaign stands at almost 64% funded (instead of less than 50%), even though times are tougher now and the initial goal is $5000 higher than Dial M's!
And Roger tells us at the halfway point there were 231 backers (the campaign eventually ended at 404). On Dangerous Ground currently has 347 backers! That means that if a similar percentage of backers (not $$$) come in the last couple of weeks as they did for Dial M, this campaign should ultimately conclude with 607 backers -- besting even the Goldsmith twofer's 495!
Not only am I still optimistic this will happen, but I'm even optimistic it can happen with TMWKTM included!
Yavar
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I think The Man Who Knew Too Much deserved a stand-alone release which includes the cantata version as heard in the remake, and, as a bonus it would have been quite interesting to hear the original cantata version by Benjamin for the 1935 film version.
Chances are, this will be the last large scale, i.e. relatively expensive Kickstarter project of a soundtrack recording for many years to come. Anyway, I'd be surprised to see another one coming real soon, and being successful.
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I think The Man Who Knew Too Much deserved a stand-alone release which includes the cantata version as heard in the remake, and, as a bonus it would have been quite interesting to hear the original cantata version by Benjamin for the 1935 film version.
Funny you should say that. Some time ago I suggested to William Stromberg that a great pairing for Bernard Herrmann's The Man Who Knew Too Much would be Arthur Benjamin's own (even shorter) The Man Who Knew Too Much. (And yes, both versions of the Storm Clouds Cantata would ideally be included.) He really loved the idea at the time!
Chances are, this will be the last large scale, i.e. relatively expensive Kickstarter project of a soundtrack recording for many years to come. Anyway, I'd be surprised to see another one coming real soon, and being successful.
If this one proves to be successful despite the state of the economy and inflation, why would you think that?
Yavar
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Posted: |
Jun 22, 2022 - 5:22 PM
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By: |
cody1949
(Member)
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I think The Man Who Knew Too Much deserved a stand-alone release which includes the cantata version as heard in the remake, and, as a bonus it would have been quite interesting to hear the original cantata version by Benjamin for the 1935 film version.
Funny you should say that. Some time ago I suggested to William Stromberg that a great pairing for Bernard Herrmann's The Man Who Knew Too Much would be Arthur Benjamin's own (even shorter) The Man Who Knew Too Much. (And yes, both versions of the Storm Clouds Cantata would ideally be included.) He really loved the idea at the time!
Chances are, this will be the last large scale, i.e. relatively expensive Kickstarter project of a soundtrack recording for many years to come. Anyway, I'd be surprised to see another one coming real soon, and being successful.
If this one proves to be successful despite the state of the economy and inflation, why would you think that?
Yavar
Some people get their kicks by being naysayers, Yavar.
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I think The Man Who Knew Too Much deserved a stand-alone release which includes the cantata version as heard in the remake, and, as a bonus it would have been quite interesting to hear the original cantata version by Benjamin for the 1935 film version.
Funny you should say that. Some time ago I suggested to William Stromberg that a great pairing for Bernard Herrmann's The Man Who Knew Too Much would be Arthur Benjamin's own (even shorter) The Man Who Knew Too Much. (And yes, both versions of the Storm Clouds Cantata would ideally be included.) He really loved the idea at the time!
Chances are, this will be the last large scale, i.e. relatively expensive Kickstarter project of a soundtrack recording for many years to come. Anyway, I'd be surprised to see another one coming real soon, and being successful.
If this one proves to be successful despite the state of the economy and inflation, why would you think that?
Yavar
Herrmann had the opportunity to write his own cantata for the film as far as I know. He chose to reuse Benjamin's instead because he liked the music. In my view, it's not a good decision to leave it out for this project. And yes, I agree, to combine both scores of TMWKTM would have made much more sense IMO but I am aware that such a recording would also be very costly because of all the singers involved. I also want to say that I like Elmer Bernstein's recording of the cantata but it lacks the power that Herrmann's version delivered for the film. So, another take would have been really nice.
If this one proves to be successful despite the state of the economic and political situation in the USA and the rest of the world Intrada really got lucky to secure all the funds they asked for -- be it 50K or even 60K. I'm pretty sure they can reach the goal of 50 at least.
But the hyperinflation and increasingly instable situation in the world doesn't go away after that Kickstarter. Only the oblivious ignore that (and I don't mean you, Yavar, are one of 'em). Just wait and see.
If there is another crowd funding project for a soundtrack recording on a similar scale of 50K or even higher within the next few years I'd be very surprised. Let alone a successful one.
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Herrmann had the opportunity to write his own cantata for the film as far as I know. He chose to reuse Benjamin's instead because he liked the music. In my view, it's not a good decision to leave it out for this project. And yes, I agree, to combine both scores of TMWKTM would have made much more sense IMO but I am aware that such a recording would also be very costly because of all the singers involved. I also want to say that I like Elmer Bernstein's recording of the cantata but it lacks the power that Herrmann's version delivered for the film. So, another take would have been really nice.
So I just revisited the original TMWKTM to refresh my memory and now I think my suggestion to Bill Stromberg was a little bit silly because there's even less score than I remembered. Apart from an excellent Main Title (about 1:15), a *very* brief End Title (about 15 seconds!), and the Cantata itself, there is no orchestral score in the original film to speak of -- only source music! Would I like to get a recording of those two cues? Yes -- they are thematically linked to the Cantata itself, which is cool (and not redone by Herrmann). But that's only a minute and a half of music! I'm pretty sure the original Benjamin version of the Cantata has been recorded, on this Chandos album at least:
https://www.amazon.com/Music-Arthur-Benjamin-Leighton-Lucas/dp/B0072A4FDY
I can understand Intrada opting to leave off the Cantata since it was written for the previous film (even if Herrmann adapted it to different forces), and the choral element would be very costly.
If this one proves to be successful despite the state of the economic and political situation in the USA and the rest of the world Intrada really got lucky to secure all the funds they asked for -- be it 50K or even 60K. I'm pretty sure they can reach the goal of 50 at least. But the hyperinflation and increasingly instable situation in the world doesn't go away after that Kickstarter. Only the oblivious ignore that (and I don't mean you, Yavar, are one of 'em). Just wait and see. If there is another crowd funding project for a soundtrack recording on a similar scale of 50K or even higher within the next few years I'd be very surprised. Let alone a successful one.
I fear you may be right but certainly hope you are wrong! I want The Jungle Book! But if Intrada opts for smaller scale Kickstarter projects going forward until the economy improves, I wholeheartedly support that too.
Yavar
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I have my doubts that strategy would work, Cody. I think you know by now that I'd support any Rozsa or Friedhofer re-recording with or without a Goldsmith bonus, but I'm not sure the bulk of Goldsmith fans would be happy/willing to have to back a pricey score by another composer in order to get their Goldsmith TV movie score (and really, there are only a couple of those that even still need to be done).
Yavar
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Posted: |
Jun 23, 2022 - 5:57 PM
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By: |
.
(Member)
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If this one proves to be successful despite the state of the economic and political situation in the USA and the rest of the world Intrada really got lucky to secure all the funds they asked for -- be it 50K or even 60K. I'm pretty sure they can reach the goal of 50 at least. But the hyperinflation and increasingly instable situation in the world doesn't go away after that Kickstarter. Only the oblivious ignore that. Just wait and see. If there is another crowd funding project for a soundtrack recording on a similar scale of 50K or even higher within the next few years I'd be very surprised. Let alone a successful one.
So if it's "the economic and political situation" you blame, that would presumably apply also to any standard new releases. Do you think it is going to be impossible going forward for any label to ever again sell 1,600 copies of a new release by, say, a Herrmann or Goldsmith or a Rozsa?
I say 1,600 because that's approximately the number of $30 pledges it takes to reach $50,000. So counting only minimal pledges of $30 (about the price we pay for any standard CD release plus shipping) about 1,600 pledges are needed to reach the target. (With all the bigger pledges also considered, the number of participants needed would of course be lowered dramatically).
Out of interest, how many copies of their upcoming "Willow" (each costing a lot nearer $40 with local shipping) do you estimate Intrada will sell during the current "economic and political situation"? Do you think the "increasingly unstable situation in the world" will mean it sells badly?
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Posted: |
Jun 23, 2022 - 6:25 PM
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By: |
ibelin
(Member)
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So if it's the economic and political situation you blame, that would presumably apply also to any standard new releases. Do you think it is going to be impossible going forward for any label to ever again sell 1,600 copies of a new release by, say, a Herrmann or Goldsmith or a Rozsa?
I say 1,600 because that's approximately the number of $30 pledges it takes to reach $50,000. So counting only minimal pledges of $30 (about the price we pay for any standard CD release plus shipping) about 1,600 pledges are needed to reach the target. (With bigger pledges also considered, the number of participants needed would of course be lowered dramatically).
Out of interest, how many copies of their upcoming "Willow" (each costing a lot nearer $40 with local shipping) do you estimate Intrada will sell during the current "economic and political situation"? Do you think the "increasingly unstable situation in the world" will mean it sells badly?
People will continue to buy non-essential things so long as they also have enough money for food, water, bills, etc. Future releases will only suffer if or when people are waiting en masse in breadlines.
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So if it's "the economic and political situation" you blame, that would presumably apply also to any standard new releases. Do you think it is going to be impossible going forward for any label to ever again sell 1,600 copies of a new release by, say, a Herrmann or Goldsmith or a Rozsa?
Keep in mind, that I think this Kickstarter will succeed (at least for one score). I'm far more sceptic there will be a next one on the same financial level within the next few years.
That's what I'm pointing out (without blaming). There's a special situation which is unprecedented in the current universe of soundtrack collecting. And no, it does not - as you presume - apply in the same way to new standard releases so far. Mainly because they are readily available and can be ordered now. The Kickstarter Herrmann will be around next year. Backers will now think twice if they want to give their money for something that will come out in about a year.
Out of interest, how many copies of their upcoming "Willow" (each costing a lot nearer $40 with local shipping) do you estimate Intrada will sell during the current "economic and political situation"? Do you think the "increasingly unstable situation in the world" will mean it sells badly?
Comparing a 1980s fantasy score with two Golden Age scores from the 1950s, that's a stretch.
How should I know if Willow sells badly? Compared to the sales of the original album the new one certainly will sell badly. It's a completely different thing, and I don't know the figures, yet I guess Willow will sell far more units within the USA alone than what Intrada can get over the counter with their Herrmann CD. -- Willow has always been a highly popular and sought after soundtrack album as long as I know. (But not with me - I've sold my copy a long, long time ago.) -- So, those two releases can't be compared in many ways. There was always a clamoring for Willow for years. Have you ever seen somehting similar for The Man Who Knew Too Much or On Dangerous Ground? I haven't.
One more thing, I'm pretty sure if Willow would have been reissued 10-15 years ago, they would have sold many more units back then compared to what they can sell today for obvious reasons, at least to me. The inflated international shipping costs which continue to go up and up are a major factor as well. They were no big issue years ago for most collectors/soundtrack buyers.
I'm sure the labels know very well they had better times behind them than what's here now, sales-wise.
I say 1,600 because that's approximately the number of $30 pledges it takes to reach $50,000. So counting only minimal pledges of $30 (about the price we pay for any standard CD release plus shipping) about 1,600 pledges are needed to reach the target. (With all the bigger pledges also considered, the number of participants needed would of course be lowered dramatically).
This Kickstarter is interesting for me because the really big backers haven't entered the floor yet. Only one wants to attend the sessions so far, being ready to pay for the needed pledge. If I remember correctly, during the King Of Kings campaign the big backers entered the scene earlier. What might be the cause other than the current economic and political situation (note Intrada's disclaimer in case you aren't able to attend the sessions)?
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Posted: |
Jun 23, 2022 - 7:33 PM
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By: |
SchiffyM
(Member)
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So if it's "the economic and political situation" you blame, that would presumably apply also to any standard new releases. Do you think it is going to be impossible going forward for any label to ever again sell 1,600 copies of a new release by, say, a Herrmann or Goldsmith or a Rozsa?
I say 1,600 because that's approximately the number of $30 pledges it takes to reach $50,000.
Your point is well taken, Basil. But I think it's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. (I know, you acknowledge that in one way when you mention some contributions are significantly higher.)
Many purchases are presumably impulse buys – I can buy this CD and have it next week – and a Kickstarter project comes with a long wait.
Also, a regular release might sell 1,600 copies over, say, six months, but there's a thirty day deadline here.
Plus, I know some people who see these Kickstarters as something akin to corporate charity, with the buying public funding a private endeavor which could in theory ultimately make a nice profit for the company taking the contributions. (I don't personally see it that way – I contribute what a CD would be worth to me, knowing there isn't a built-in market for these niche products to be funded in the old-fashioned way.) I recently had a conversation with a friend about the Black Patch/The Man CD and he said he was quite happy to buy the CD once it was ready, but not interested in financing it for Intrada.
As always, I feel like it's a miracle when these projects happen at all. I really hope this one funds, and I'll kick in a few more bucks before the deadline, but as everybody here seems to agree, success is by no means inevitable.
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