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 Posted:   Aug 30, 2013 - 7:05 PM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

i hate that holideck crap!*
a cheap way to make an ep when the writer's can't think of anything new>
i felt the same way about some of ST:TOS. to save money they wrote scripts around pre-existing sets: Ancient Rome, the wild west, Depressioon era NYC etc
brm


Those TOS episodes were done to dramatize Hodgkin's Law of Parallel Planetary Development. Everybody knows that.

it isn't even scientifically credible. Virtual reality & holograms do not have substance so you cant ride a horse etc

The Holodeck projected intersecting force fields to give its holograms "substance." And likewise the floor was actually a force field that gave the semblance of motion via a treadmill effect. It's all in the NEXT GEN Technical Manual. Maybe you need to read it again. smile

 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2013 - 8:09 PM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

it isn't even scientifically credible

And you're the scientist to tell us this eh?

What's your field? Dumbassery? Was your major in bullshit?

If you can't see its meant as a wiring device and scientifics be damned, you have suffered major cranial trauma at an earlier date and need to be seen by a medical staff.

 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2013 - 12:41 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)


The Holodeck projected intersecting force fields to give its holograms "substance." And likewise the floor was actually a force field that gave the semblance of motion via a treadmill effect. It's all in the NEXT GEN Technical Manual. Maybe you need to read it again. smile

Likewise the Holodeck's weren't simply just a Holodeck, they also had replicators in them and certain substances would sometimes be replicated and you'd have the real deal.

I've read this in tech' before. This accounts for, for example, Wesley leaving a Holodeck soaking wet.


Other shows called this kind of holographic technology "hard light" (like "Red Dwarf"), where the holography is rendered substantive through some fantastical sort of technology, like the Trek tech' which, as pointed out, uses force fields.

 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2013 - 3:17 AM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

Thanks, Justin. Just to clarify, I was being facetious in taking it so seriously. But I am a fan of this stuff.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2013 - 8:29 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

i hate that holideck crap!*
a cheap way to make an ep when the writer's can't think of anything new>
i felt the same way about some of ST:TOS. to save money they wrote scripts around pre-existing sets: Ancient Rome, the wild west, Depressioon era NYC etc
brm

it isn't even scientifically credible. Virtual reality & holograms do not have substance so you cant ride a horse etc


Is it a somewhat cost effective writing trick, well, yes. Is that really such a bad thing? No. The problem of these shows is finding cost effective ways to get out of the bottle. The bottle shows were all self contained in the ship, and that can be limiting and less interesting, but the reason for bottle shows to some degree is that they much cheaper. The show was generally costing about $1 million per show, which was extremely expensive in that day. So it was not realistic to expect them to have adventures on a new alien world with new sets and effects every week, besides that they were turning a show around in about 7 days. So new sets, new effects every week are just not possible.

You should know though that the first real holodeck ep "The Big Goodbye" won a Peabody award. It is about telling stories, yes the deck is a story device to get them off the bridge and the corridors of the ship, and to tell stories and show characters playing at leisure. I think that it is a brilliant story device for showing the characters personal interests and fears, and much of it would not be very accessible, or easily written without the device of the holodeck.

 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2013 - 9:13 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Well what ever the holodeck was, it was not a holodeck. Should have been called something else. It was more like a virtual reality, though somehow it happened in the physical world.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2013 - 9:34 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Well what ever the holodeck was, it was not a holodeck. Should have been called something else. It was more like a virtual reality, though somehow it happened in the physical world.

Well you are right, I think it was just a convenient term at that time. Holograms very probably sort of cool back then, whereas virtual reality room, does not really roll off the tongue.

Maybe
Sim Room
Virtual Room
- Nah that does not sound good either.

How about 'the grid'

Sounds kinda like Tron - nah.






 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2013 - 1:25 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

i hate that holideck crap!*
a cheap way to make an ep when the writer's can't think of anything new>
i felt the same way about some of ST:TOS. to save money they wrote scripts around pre-existing sets: Ancient Rome, the wild west, Depressioon era NYC etc
brm


Those TOS episodes were done to dramatize Hodgkin's Law of Parallel Planetary Development. Everybody knows that.

it isn't even scientifically credible. Virtual reality & holograms do not have substance so you cant ride a horse etc

The Holodeck projected intersecting force fields to give its holograms "substance." And likewise the floor was actually a force field that gave the semblance of motion via a treadmill effect. It's all in the NEXT GEN Technical Manual. Maybe you need to read it again. smile


Zap, stick with TITANIC - a subject you are mos def an expert on
LOL!
bruce

 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2013 - 3:53 PM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

The chemistry between the actors is not there in the first season of TNG and only starts to form in the second season; that said, I did revisit the first season in HD and if you're thinking of getting the blu-rays, the newly improved quality and presentation adds a lot to the show. As is said before in this thread, there are character moments that stand out in each episode and are there to develop the characters more; the poker games in the second season I love. I would simply recommend to sit through it all and enjoy the ride, there's far more good episodes than there are bad and the show only gets better with each passing season which not many shows can say.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2013 - 4:21 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

The chemistry between the actors is not there in the first season of TNG and only starts to form in the second season; that said, I did revisit the first season in HD and if you're thinking of getting the blu-rays, the newly improved quality and presentation adds a lot to the show. As is said before in this thread, there are character moments that stand out in each episode and are there to develop the characters more; the poker games in the second season I love. I would simply recommend to sit through it all and enjoy the ride, there's far more good episodes than there are bad and the show only gets better with each passing season which not many shows can say.


That's a matter of opinion, Amigo--I think there are plenty of chemistry moments scattered about in there. But because the succeeding seasons were so abundant with them, the first season could only look miserly by comparison.

 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2013 - 10:03 AM   
 By:   Dyfrynt   (Member)

I agree with Ado that the Holodeck was a plot creating devise that allowed the use of already available sets to cut down on production costs. And as that it was a brilliant piece of creativity. My gripe was when the silly thing somehow kept taking over and creating real life crisis either to characters and/or the entire ship itself.

And there was always some quasi-scientific mumbo jumbo to explain why they couldn't just pull the stupid plug to turn it off. As a one time story line it is actually a very interesting idea. But once they knew the Holodeck had the capability to malfunction and cause real life crisis, what do they do?

If the thing is that dangerous you shut it down until it can be made safe. But nope. They just let it run and over the seasons we saw the silly thing put the ship in danger over and over again.

So one is left with a plot device that helps to save on real filming costs on the one hand, but at the same time makes the crew look like complete idiots because they allow it to keep running with the knowledge that it can potentially act up at any time and threaten everyone aboard.

To be fair, the plot device in TOS to save on production costs by using readily available sets, the so called parallel evolution concept, was an even worse idea. Here we had real planets that had developed Western towns, Nazi regimes and Chicago Mobs entirely separately from earth. Those TOS budgets were thread bare compared to Next Gen, so I suppose they really had no choice.

In the end, the money will always trump creativity. So perhaps I shouldn't be so hard on Next Gen. I just wish they could have found a way around the "our toys are killing us" concept.

 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2013 - 3:21 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

The Holodeck's were recreational devices. We have recreational devices and toys today that cause injury when not working properly, but we don't stop using them all together.

Most the Holodeck incidents I recall from TNG, were unique sets of circumstances that brought on unusual operations of the Holodeck. The things didn't just ever, that I recall, go bad like it needed routine maintenance and started harming people -- there was usually some kind of outside interference. Except in the one occasion where a character was programmed in such a way that he became self aware -- the problem was he was a historically evil character, so naturally he wanted out. As I recall, that was Data's fault.

Come to think of it, think of the times Data has malfunctioned: he stole the Enterprise, he stabbed Troi, and other occassions. Maybe they should have deactivated Data.


Since there are multiple Holodeck's on the Galaxy class starship and we've seen at least one instance where it was occupied when a crew memeber went to one, it implies the nearly 2,000 member crew uses these things with regularity, meaning the track records is one of safety. And then you have to consider that other Galaxy class starships and other class starships also have Holodeck's, and that there's likely hundreds if not a thousand (if we included starbases, too) in operation every day in the Trek universe. Seems really safe to me.

 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2013 - 3:24 PM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

Some of the best moments happened on holodecks; Picard and Scotty on the old enterprise bridge, the crew recounting torture and experimention with a metal table in 'schisms', Moriarty coming to life, the enterprise growing a conscience, Worf fighting Skeletor.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2013 - 9:03 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Scotty on the old enterprise bridge...

That was one of the most touching moments of the whole series.

...the crew recounting torture and experimention with a metal table in 'schisms'...

And that was one of the eeriest moments. "We've all been here." Chilling.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 9:08 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)



I thought that the "holo-addiction" episode was pretty perceptive.

"Hollow Pursuits" (3rd Season) Reginald Barclay imagined his romances on the holodeck, and placing the characters in the story in narratives that belittled them or put them at his erotic disposal. If you think that we might have a technology that you could imagine anything you want, anyone you want, and you could do whatever you like in private without repercussions, I think that it would be very much like a drug, very addictive, and potentially bring out the darkest parts of people.

 
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