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 Posted:   Aug 30, 2013 - 12:08 PM   
 By:   GoodMusician86   (Member)

From what was said, the channels to produce it no longer exist.. and something about having to pay royalties again. Although I would LOVE if we could get a complete release of this with the elements that appear to have been found

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2013 - 8:25 PM   
 By:   GoodMusician86   (Member)

Sorry to bump this but I wanna make sure, if possible, these questions are answered or at least noticed heh after all the conversation we had.

I just spent a long time writing a response and break down of my notes and yours and....I got logged out and lost it...UGH!

Anyway, What I wanted you to see is that the BluRay/ DVD 5.1 mix has many tracks NOT on the FMS set. These tracks are mixed into the new 5.1 either in a 'created stereo' just like FSM had for most of the set OR as MONO music. This would indicate many of the missing elements are now found.

All the source music you list in your break down I agree upon.

One question I do have is "The Promenade Room" seems to be different in the 5.1 mix to the extended TV version. Both have the 'ragged ending.' Did Williams record more than one cue for this?

Also, the 'Leaked' headset radio, was that source Written by Williams too?

_______________________________________________
Here are my notes on the rest of the score:
(I used all my cue titles. I couldn't find any information on authentic cue names. You seem to know some, can you share them or slate numbers?)

"Something For Susan"
I disagree that this track is a layering of the later cue "More For Susan." Unless perhaps it's the isolated the Sax/Vibraphone because it's almost the same as 'Something For Susan' but with minor performance changes in these instruments... like an alternate take.

"Lisolette and Harlee"
The mix heard in the film is pretty similar although the cymbal and rim shot a little quieter (although the mono music mix heard in the original MONO mix has it at varying volumes.
ps: the extended cut seems to be the version William's scored as the source would fit the full sequence if synced correctly.

***Oddly the FSM chose not to use the LP Album for this so they 'created' the stereo and is therefore mixed differently.***


"The Flame Ignites"
A mostly unused cue, the original mono mix doesn't even use it at all but the DVD mix uses a version (omitting the wood block) for about a second and a half as the now infamous OJ Simpson looks at the readout screen.

The film doesn't have the 'wood block' which could be either an alternate mix or a different take. Do you know which?


"Harlee Dressing"
There are TWO takes of this. The 5.1 DVD mix utilizes both to achieve the total effect. The Center channel has a singular glissando on preceding the beat, where as the front channel has a glissando on the beat. The version on the FSM edit utilizes the front channel take and repeats it, artificially, attempting to replicate the center channel and looping it a third time for some unknown reason. I don't consider the FSM take authentic, only the two isolated takes (center/ front) which seems to verify the difference in string performance between the 5.1 mix and the FSM mix.

Also I remember reading that the ending isn't used, but it is, they just split the full scene by a quick shot of the crowd outside. The scene is longer as well, but the music doesn't seem continue into the extra length



"Susan and Doug *USED!"
In the FSM set they state that this cue is NOT heard in the film and is an album arrangement. This is completely false. In fact, I was able to line up the music exactly with the DVD mix and it played almost it's full length (in the extended cut). In the original cut of the film, you only hear part, but it is CLEARLY this track (as heard on the album too. Same take, same mix).



"The More I See You "The Promenade Room" (Source)"
Oddly enough, the 5.1 DVD release presents it in MONO only. It's heard partially in the center channel, echoing in the rear channels, and in the front channel you hear it only in the left (mono) with a slight echo in the right. Never (unlike the other source cues) does the mix pull apart the instrument groups, which, if not for that interview, I'd believe meant the source was lost in all but a mono down mix. This is an instrumental arrangement of the Harry Warren song "The More I See You."

Oddly enough, the TV extended cut's mono mix uses a different cue (or at least a different take of the ending) I don't recognize the melody so I couldn't say ....
Do you know which it was?



"Going Back for Angela"
Presented only in the film (presumably one of the 'incidental' lost cues,) this cue is short and has very little development but presents a good amount of tension for this short sequence.
**This is heard in the 5.1 as a mono down mix throughout. This may mean that a MONO downmix source is available for it now***


"All Downhill"
A second piece missing from any set (another 'incidental' lost cue), this one sounds almost like it could go to Star Wars Episode II in some of the dark/tense moments heh!
***It is presented in the 5.1 mix as a mono down mix... perhaps there is a surviving element??***


"Down the Pipes"
This is one of those cues people thought were used in ET? lol It is the same technique though as used in the opening of ET. The oddity with this though is that the album presents a greatly diminished version of the cue. You have the flute and low string intro then the film cuts to silence for a few seconds until the reveal of the chasm where the 'wails' of the gong begin.

Careful listening to the 5.1 mix, you can hear that the two parts (flute/cello and gong) are not recorded separately in that a slight fade after the cello/flute part includes a little of the beginning of the gong(ie: they cut part of the cue up until the reveal of the chasm). Then, the actual reveal of the chasm has a slight fade in where you can clearly hear the end of what came before it (unused) in that gap of silence. At first I thought maybe the album was this missing music and the first gong-wail is, but the other two actually are edits from later in the cut. You can also hear at the end of the cue before the cut away to the next scene there is a slight fade out of ANOTHER Gong wail.

Structure:
Solo Flute - Flute/Cello - Gong Wail 1 (album/ fade out and omitted in film) - missing music (possibly 2 gong wails?) - (Omitted Gong fades in) - Gong Wail 2* (Heard only in film) - Gong Wail 3* (Album/Film) - Gong Wail 4* (Heard only in film) - Gong Wail 5* (Album/Film) - (Omitted Gong Quick Fade out)


So this means there is more to this cue that was not released and edited out?

Here are my thoughts on the "Kiss of Death":

"The Unconscious Man (Deleted Scene)"
The music, however, almost reminds me of something that would more appropriately go in the next scene as the Fireman see one of their own fall down the elevator shaft on fire before repelling. The cue fades out in this scene with a rather open and cold string cord which could have led into the fanfare of "Successful Repel." I say all this because some scenes were obviously included in William's cut and he scored them, but for about half the deleted scenes, they were NOT included in his cut and they are mostly unnecessary scenes (which would have been trimmed early in production) These were then re-inserted for the Television cut to extend the play time due to breaking the film into two acts. This scene doesn't really need this cue and the style which William's writes the intro (a bright and surprising call to attention) is out of tone with the scene as they pull the man from the smoke. It starts kinda late and ends early...there's still stuff going on so its odd for it not to be scored too. It would more appropriately underscore a 'surprise' than a "oh look what we found" moment. This is all speculation however.

"Successful Repel"
Mostly unused in the film (or perhaps only a small piece for the actual 'landing' was written) this cue as heard in the film has tracked music from 'Lisolette's Decent' and then a new and brief reprise of the Fireman/Heroic theme. Only available in a mono film mix. (NOTE: Listen for the horns to play the melody to 'When You're All Alone' from HOOK in this lol)


"Hanging in There"
You say this wasn't found, but it's on the FSM set and spoken of in the liner notes as for the safe landing of the elevator (and I synced it up and it worked pretty well)...


"Drafted"
Presented only in the film's mix (again as a 'created' stereo) this cue is omitted from the FSM set. A short cue utilizing a repeating Main Title/ Hero ostinato in the vibraphones and a final string swell as the realization that to save the people in the promenade room might be a one way trip. (Interesting note: the TV cut omits Steve McQueen's 'Shit!' line lol)
**This must have been found in the same condition as most of the FSM source as it was used in the 5.1 mix with isolated instrument groups***

PS: I had NO idea about the Architect's Dream! I'll have to check that heh

I'd love your thoughts on this :-D Thanks!

 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2013 - 9:14 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

One of my favorite cues that I don't believe is on the FSM CD is when Robert Vaughn and Bill Holden check the exit doors and find that the one is blocked by concrete. It's a rather low-key suspense cue with a very 70's mysterioso flute moment. I love that kind of scoring.

Er, I hate to say it, but I know precisely the bit you're discussing here. There's also the moment when the security man, Harry Jernigan, rescues Lisolette Mueller's cat. Short snippets of score that are very distinctive and lost Williams isms from his 70s 'disaster' era.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2013 - 9:38 AM   
 By:   GoodMusician86   (Member)

The cue when OJ Simpson saves the cat is the 2nd half of the "Damaged" track "Departmental Pride and The Cat"

As for that cue with the door being stuck shut... that isn't on the FSM set yea :-/ BUT as I kinda discussed, the 5.1 contains what appears to have been an isolated music element that they mixed into the channels... so it must have survived in some fashion although I think it was only mono if I recall.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 4, 2013 - 2:51 PM   
 By:   GoodMusician86   (Member)

Was hoping maybe I could see if you might give me your thoughts Browny :-)

Really interested to hear your thoughts on what I found... if it might help push for a new more complete release too heh

 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2013 - 4:48 AM   
 By:   Browny   (Member)

Was hoping maybe I could see if you might give me your thoughts Browny :-)

Really interested to hear your thoughts on what I found... if it might help push for a new more complete release too heh


Hey GoodMusician, I really apologise for this late reply, somehow I lost track of this thread and only just came upon it again today. I would really like to respond to you away from the board if you could find the time to email me via the address in my profile. It's not my primary one but will get to me none the less.

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Geoff.

 
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