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There's a difference between hating and saying so.
There's even more difference between saying so, and repeatedly saying so over and over, and changing the subject so you can say so again.
Purely as an example, I hate the Man Of Steel score. I think it's boring, unmemorable, doesn't help the film (which is all over the shop anyway) and is atrocious as a standalone listen. I said so at the time, in my review of the film and in a couple of posts on here. But that was weeks ago, when the film had just come out and my two penn'orth opinions were at least freshly minted. To repeat these opinions, month after month after year, is senseless (I avoided the recent rash of ranty Zimmer threads completely). Maybe, if the topic comes up in 2018, when a fresh batch of score fans have discovered it, but it doesn't have to come up and I don't have to contribute if it does.
None of this translates into a hatred of Hans Zimmer, by the way - I've never met him, I don't know him, and to be honest I don't want to. It doesn't matter. I love his scores for DROP ZONE and THE PEACEMAKER an THE ROCK and BACKDRAFT and a bunch of others; but I'm not obligated to like everything he does. No-one is. If you don't like the Man Of Steel score, it's incredibly easy to not listen to it. I'm not listening to it at this very moment and can see myself spending the rest of the week not listening to it. Problem solved. Bottom line: I can't get that upset that a not-very-good film has a not-very-good score plastered over it. It annoys me at the time, but keeping the hate going feels like a huge waste of energy. Just let it go.
Whether the MV/RC "sound" is bad for film or film music in the long run is another issue entirely. But it isn't a composer thing, it's an industry thing. I lament the lack of melodies and themes in too much modern scoring, but that's not Zimmer's fault, it's not Djawadi's fault, it's not Lorne Balfe's fault. That's what the producers and/or directors and/or studio executives want, for whatever reason, and presumably it's because they think it's what the audiences want. Sure, if I were in charge, I'd have memorable themes up the wazoo for these movies - was there actually a melodic line in Pacific Rim? - but then if I were in charge, all TV newsreaders would all be forced to wear those baseball caps with propellors on top. Maybe it's best all round that we're not in charge.
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It's all in how you present your case. Some can do it in a dignified NICE manner while being polite and many others on here have no idea what any of those words are, OR are living a very miserable life and the only way they can vent some of their anger they feel the world has wronged them is on here.
The old phrase, Misery Loves Company is quite true.
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There was one who used to try and metaphorically pull my skirt for attention, like "Mummy, mummy - look at me; look at what I'm doing".
People calling for Mummy are not right on their minds!
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Sometimes, mind you, we just. don't. like. a. composer's. music!
It does not speak to us.
We do not find it functional within the context of the film to which it has been applied (i.e., "music produced by"..etc.)
It's over the top without being interesting or even remotely memorable.
Whatever the reason, it will continue on...
Yes, and if we state something bad about a score/composer here, we have stones thrown at us. This even makes me want to dislike the score/composer even more. We like what we like and you can like what you want, so do not try to force your choices on us (MLP, etc). I guess this board wants to be one sided, you are to like every movie/score/release and if you do not, keep it quiet. YOR hating Zimmer is one thing, but lately he has been going to the extreme and that needs to stop! State your dislikes/likes and move on, do not make multiple threads that lead into locked threads.
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Yes, and if we state something bad about a score/composer here, we have stones thrown at us. This even makes me want to dislike the score/composer even more. We like what we like and you can like what you want, so do not try to force your choices on us (MLP, etc). I guess this board wants to be one sided, you are to like every movie/score/release and if you do not, keep it quiet. YOR hating Zimmer is one thing, but lately he has been going to the extreme and that needs to stop! State your dislikes/likes and move on, do not make multiple threads that lead into locked threads.
King Kong is not right.
YOR did not open multiple threads to bash Hanzimmer.
He opened just two and one got locked because zimmerities puke all over the place with their usual nasty remarks.
YOR nice and humble hunter from the future that open lots os threads about lots of subjects.
King Kong should look close.
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Posted: |
Jul 18, 2013 - 11:59 AM
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By: |
Thor
(Member)
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Hmmm....where to begin (we've touched on this subject a few times before, but I'm too lazy to post links right now)?
'Hate' is an incredibly strong word that should ideally be used with care. There is room for it when it is warranted -- when a piece of music irks you so much no other word can cover it -- but discretion is adviced. Airing one's discontent in a firm, but constructive fashion is an artform all to itself, IMO.
Like David, I've mellowed considerably over the years. In the 90's, I really disliked, sometimes even hated, a number of scores and composers. These days, not so much. A particular sound or approach may not appeal to me; may not 'gel' with my taste; may feel almost biologically adverse to the way I am wired, but I still try to express myself as constructively and with as little venom as possible. Not only because that's the best source for discussion, but also because there may be others who are huge fans and it isn't really polite to scream their passion in the face.
For example, I still don't like Howard Shore's 'drone' scores, I don't like John Barry's approach to action music, I don't connect with Alexandre Desplat or Michael Giacchino very much, I can't stand the more dissonant music of Ennio Morricone and so on. And so the challenge is -- how do I express this to reflect my viewpoint, but without alienating others? Simply airing these sentiments to begin with will no doubt upset people who take opposing viewpoints as personal affronts, but when you've done your best to strive for constructive points (and eschew 'cheap shots'), you can at least be satisfied with that.
If there is one thing I DO hate, it's when a potentially interesting debate on a topic I care about descends into personal insults -- for reasons that could so easily be avoided.
Maybe some of this comes off as pure nonsense (hey, it's the first day of my summer holiday and I've had a few glasses of wine), but I can sum it up as follows:
Stay open-minded for whatever music you encounter and let your 'body' "decide" if it connects with you or not. If it does, great. If it doesn't, and there's a discussion about it, try to say WHY it doesn't connect with you without trying to put the other part down in some way.
And try to avoid the word 'hate' unless it's REALLY necessary.
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Posted: |
Jul 18, 2013 - 12:45 PM
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By: |
Ludwig van
(Member)
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Stay open-minded for whatever music you encounter and let your 'body' "decide" if it connects with you or not. If it does, great. If it doesn't, and there's a discussion about it, try to say WHY it doesn't connect with you without trying to put the other part down in some way.
This sums up my position on the issue of personal likes and dislikes. I've certainly changed my tune, though, from earlier days, just in terms of likes and dislikes in general. When I was working on my dissertation, I remember coming across some bit of reading that I really didn't agree with. And at the time, when I didn't agree with something, I thought it was wrong, wrong, wrong! And it came out in my writing, so when my dissertation supervisor read what I had written, he said, "can't you just go with the flow?" So I looked through the reading again with more of an open mind and found that there actually was a way of combining it with my own view without outright contradicting it.
From that time on, I've always challenged myself to find something of value within something I wouldn't normally go near either because I've said I don't like it or I just don't know anything about it. And I've just about always found that there is considerable merit in such things, sometimes so much so that it sways my opinion over to the "like" side.
Of course, I have my preferences, but I find that this is a much more productive way to go because I'm willing to look and listen more carefully to more types of music, which yields more fruitful discussions with others and adds new kinds of music to my personal likes. It's pretty much win-win.
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Posted: |
Jul 18, 2013 - 12:58 PM
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By: |
edwzoomom
(Member)
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Hmmm....where to begin (we've touched on this subject a few times before, but I'm too lazy to post links right now)?
'Hate' is an incredibly strong word that should ideally be used with care. There is room for it when it is warranted -- when a piece of music irks you so much no other word can cover it -- but discretion is adviced. Airing one's discontent in a firm, but constructive fashion is an artform all to itself, IMO.
Like David, I've mellowed considerably over the years. In the 90's, I really disliked, sometimes even hated, a number of scores and composers. These days, not so much. A particular sound or approach may not appeal to me; may not 'gel' with my taste; may feel almost biologically adverse to the way I am wired, but I still try to express myself as constructively and with as little venom as possible. Not only because that's the best source for discussion, but also because there may be others who are huge fans and it isn't really polite to scream their passion in the face.
For example, I still don't like Howard Shore's 'drone' scores, I don't like John Barry's approach to action music, I don't connect with Alexandre Desplat or Michael Giacchino very much, I can't stand the more dissonant music of Ennio Morricone and so on. And so the challenge is -- how do I express this to reflect my viewpoint, but without alienating others? Simply airing these sentiments to begin with will no doubt upset people who take opposing viewpoints as personal affronts, but when you've done your best to strive for constructive points (and eschew 'cheap shots'), you can at least be satisfied with that.
If there is one thing I DO hate, it's when a potentially interesting debate on a topic I care about descends into personal insults -- for reasons that could so easily be avoided.
Maybe some of this comes off as pure nonsense (hey, it's the first day of my summer holiday and I've had a few glasses of wine), but I can sum it up as follows:
Stay open-minded for whatever music you encounter and let your 'body' "decide" if it connects with you or not. If it does, great. If it doesn't, and there's a discussion about it, try to say WHY it doesn't connect with you without trying to put the other part down in some way.
And try to avoid the word 'hate' unless it's REALLY necessary.
"...pure nonsense." - not at all! It is not the grape talking either. It is pure and simple genius! Agree!
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Posted: |
Jul 18, 2013 - 5:54 PM
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By: |
Regie
(Member)
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I've always challenged myself to find something of value within something I wouldn't normally go near either because I've said I don't like it or I just don't know anything about it. And I've just about always found that there is considerable merit in such things, sometimes so much so that it sways my opinion over to the "like" side.
Of course, I have my preferences, but I find that this is a much more productive way to go because I'm willing to look and listen more carefully to more types of music, which yields more fruitful discussions with others and adds new kinds of music to my personal likes. It's pretty much win-win.
How often have I done that: challenged myself to find something of value!! Having read an anthology about Alban Berg comparatively recently, I've found myself an unexpected enthusiast for his music. However, once I would shudder at the name and the entire 'second Viennese' project, thinking it the antithesis of my musical values. Now I want to understand "Pierrot Lunaire" and Schoenberg because my 'transformation' is still a work in progress!! How shocking, then, to realize that this music is already a century old!!
Before launching into diatribes about particular composers and pieces, I think it's important for people to realize that the love of music isn't circumscribed by preference to this or that particular composer or genre: that we are all moved in very similar ways in our responses to music.
I say it's whatever gets us there - the journey - which is key to all this.
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