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JUG FACE---horror movie about a pregnant teen in a rural community who discovers she is the next human sacrifice to an evil entity in a pit that puts the sacrifice's facial likeness on a jug. Ashley Carter and Sean Young star.
Is this a joke?
And people complain there's no originality in Hollywood.
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Vin Diesel is a good actor.
Thanks for that I really needed a big laugh.
Well, lets see... Saving Private Ryan, The Iron Giant, Find Me Guilty...
I'm not saying he should be doing Hamlet, but the guy CAN do more than action films.
He turned in a damn good performance in Boiler Room, a highly underrated film that also features solid performances from Nicky Katt, Giovanni Ribisi, Ben Affleck, and Ron Rifkin.
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Posted: |
Jul 2, 2013 - 8:59 AM
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By: |
mstrox
(Member)
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Vin Diesel is a good actor.
Thanks for that I really needed a big laugh.
Black Panther however... isn`t he black?...
If 1989 Harvey Dent, Nick Fury and Kingpin can be a black men, and Catwoman be a black woman, then let's be fair and make the Black panther white and let the black refer to his costume, which it did and does in the comics too.
D.S.
There's a big difference between diversifying your cast with people of color, and whitewashing a noted character who has always been a person of color to cram into a white comic book universe.
Yeah, diversify the existing ones. Why bother going to all that trouble creating new original black characters like "Black Panther" when you can simply change all the others to black.
Of course I don't see how that is really diversifying them when there are other races as well. But since they don't complain as much, we'll just ignore them.
Technically, 2/4 of the examples above (Nick Fury and Catwoman) were people of color in the comic books long before they were cast as people of color in their respective franchises, so nobody changed anything for the movies in those cases.
Michael Clarke Duncan was a great Kingpin and really the best part of that awful movie, and I'd be hard pressed to think of another (known) actor who could bring that level of power to screen. As for Billy Dee Williams as Harvey Dent/Two Face, we'll never know how that would have turned out since Burton's reported plans to use BDW as Two-Face fell by the wayside, but presumably he was cast because it was felt he would do a great job. Since whiteness is not an inherent feature of either character (character as the idea, not character based on the physical appearance), I see no reason why either role shouldn't have gone to the person deemed most qualified by the filmmakers.
To say that blackness is not a defining characteristic of Black Panther, I think, would be inaccurate. The character is an African chief/king who used African artifacts, plants, minerals, etc to fight villainy. He has historically fought the KKK and Apartheid. Arguably you could say that the name comes from the color of the costume, but the character himself is and has always been black, and has become a symbol of black power. Changing him to a white character would change him into a different character entirely, and would be marginalizing in the same way as casting Johnny Depp as Tonto, as mentioned above.
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Posted: |
Jul 2, 2013 - 9:28 AM
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By: |
BobJ
(Member)
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Vin Diesel is a good actor.
Thanks for that I really needed a big laugh.
Black Panther however... isn`t he black?...
If 1989 Harvey Dent, Nick Fury and Kingpin can be a black men, and Catwoman be a black woman, then let's be fair and make the Black panther white and let the black refer to his costume, which it did and does in the comics too.
D.S.
There's a big difference between diversifying your cast with people of color, and whitewashing a noted character who has always been a person of color to cram into a white comic book universe.
Yeah, diversify the existing ones. Why bother going to all that trouble creating new original black characters like "Black Panther" when you can simply change all the others to black.
Of course I don't see how that is really diversifying them when there are other races as well. But since they don't complain as much, we'll just ignore them.
Technically, 2/4 of the examples above (Nick Fury and Catwoman) were people of color in the comic books long before they were cast as people of color in their respective franchises, so nobody changed anything for the movies in those cases.
Michael Clarke Duncan was a great Kingpin and really the best part of that awful movie, and I'd be hard pressed to think of another (known) actor who could bring that level of power to screen. As for Billy Dee Williams as Harvey Dent/Two Face, we'll never know how that would have turned out since Burton's reported plans to use BDW as Two-Face fell by the wayside, but presumably he was cast because it was felt he would do a great job. Since whiteness is not an inherent feature of either character (character as the idea, not character based on the physical appearance), I see no reason why either role shouldn't have gone to the person deemed most qualified by the filmmakers.
To say that blackness is not a defining characteristic of Black Panther, I think, would be inaccurate. The character is an African chief/king who used African artifacts, plants, minerals, etc to fight villainy. He has historically fought the KKK and Apartheid. Arguably you could say that the name comes from the color of the costume, but the character himself is and has always been black, and has become a symbol of black power. Changing him to a white character would change him into a different character entirely, and would be marginalizing in the same way as casting Johnny Depp as Tonto, as mentioned above.
You didn't address a single thing I brought up. 1. I never brought up where a character became black first, comic or film. 2. I wasn't the one talking about making Black Panther "white". 3. I never said anything about the cultural diversity of any of these characters-black or white.
I was raising the point that turning existing white characters black was not truly diversifying them as white or black seems to be the only two default colors they are able to choose from, which by it's very nature excludes all others. If being white didn't define the characters, then being black won't either. Why not asian Nick Fury? Native American Catwoman? Simple-their voice does not carry as much weight in our culture currently. Which leads to my overall point that they could be more culturally diverse by creating new characters with their own unique voice and characteristics and have the come from truly diverse multicultural backgrounds. I.E. More original black characters like Black Panther and less changing of existing ones. Which they will not do of course as that would take creation and creativity. It is much easier to change or destroy that which exists than to create something original.
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Posted: |
Jul 2, 2013 - 10:45 AM
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By: |
mstrox
(Member)
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You didn't address a single thing I brought up. 1. I never brought up where a character became black first, comic or film. 2. I wasn't the one talking about making Black Panther "white". 3. I never said anything about the cultural diversity of any of these characters-black or white.
My post was basically a long way of saying that my word use of "diversify" was incorrect in my post, and that it was more about casting the right actor for the right role - regardless of how they look vs. the comic.
The other thoughts were expanding on my original thoughts towards Disco Stu (who had basically indicated "why can't Black Panther be white if they made Nick Fury/Catwoman/Kingpin/Harvey Dent black? and anyway Black Panther is called that because of his costume") because my original post on the subject was pretty brief and I had reflected on it some more. It wasn't directed at you, but to the other poster. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.
I do bristle at the wording that casting a person of color in a role where ethnicity is not relevant to the character is "changing or destroying what exists" - since again those roles are not defined by race in any sort, and are not changed and certainly were not destroyed when people of color were cast.
As to your topic, I do agree that more roles should be made for people of every race, but they can't all be "African king fighting crime" which implies the race of the actor - some roles do not have ethnicity built in, and in many cases diversity needs to come from the casting couch and not from the pen. Certainly more should come from the writers or character creators themselves, or from somewhere, anywhere along the line in the process - because most major movies are written and produced mainly by white males and targeted towards white males, and that is where the main problem lies.
Certainly this is not strictly a black/white issue and there are tons of people with different identities (racial and otherwise) who are overlooked for roles - the reason this particular issue was being discussed, I think, was due to the suggestion above that Vin Diesel play Black Panther, and because historically the "changing" of characters in comic book movies has been a white/black issue, so on the micro level I think that's why it was being discussed here. I don't really know, systemically in Hollywood, why the issue is more a binary (black/white) - without having read any literature on the subject or seeing polling/studies, etc - part of the reason people or groups advocate more for African Americans vs. other people of color probably has something to do with demographics - i.e. percentage of population represented by these groups, although that would not explain the paucity of roles for people who identify as Hispanic or Asian American, since they make up a very large percentage of the population as well and have advocacy groups. There is some sort of societal hierarchy at play that is pretty insidious and needs examining, but I'll leave that research to the sociologists and not a comic book nerd like me  .
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Full flamin' stop. 