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 Posted:   Jul 7, 2013 - 3:10 PM   
 By:   philiperic   (Member)

what sources were used for the Bluray?
It sounds great there!


Im sure the source is the same three channel mags.
But Im sure you do not have the laser to compare the sound to.
While the blu has good fidelity, the OVerture and Main Title sound almost mono to me, with very little stereo spread at all.

I was blown away by that laserdisc reissue's sound - I dont think that the music has ever sounded as full bodied and spectacular as the one Joe is talking about - I am not technically knowledgeable enough to know why but to my ears, it is as good as it ever sounded on home theater.

Btw , does anyone remember besides me the big reissue to theaters in 1988(?) of THE TEN COMMANDMENTS in 70mm and 6 track dolby ? I believe you can hear this promotion on one of the reissue trailers on dvd + BR. Supposedly, Paramount took the original Vistavision prints and "blew up" the frame to a different size and cut off tops and bottoms -- I did see this and not knowing what had been done , I thought that in some scenes that it was like an entirely different print of a classic I had seen dozens of times . At the time, Paramount claimed that they used a rare print from Cecil B. DeMille's own archives. The sound for this reissue was also the best I ever heard in a movie theater for TTC.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 7, 2013 - 9:23 PM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)



Btw , does anyone remember besides me the big reissue to theaters in 1988(?) of THE TEN COMMANDMENTS in 70mm and 6 track dolby ? I believe you can hear this promotion on one of the reissue trailers on dvd + BR. Supposedly, Paramount took the original Vistavision prints and "blew up" the frame to a different size and cut off tops and bottoms -- I did see this and not knowing what had been done , I thought that in some scenes that it was like an entirely different print of a classic I had seen dozens of times . At the time, Paramount claimed that they used a rare print from Cecil B. DeMille's own archives. The sound for this reissue was also the best I ever heard in a movie theater for TTC.


There was an earlier 70mm blow up in 1968 in the UK which I saw but i don't think it was cropped. It was 1.85:1 as far as I recall.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 8, 2013 - 3:08 AM   
 By:   CinemaScope   (Member)



There was an earlier 70mm blow up in 1968 in the UK which I saw but i don't think it was cropped. It was 1.85:1 as far as I recall.


Yup, that's when I saw it, & I'm pretty sure it was at The Astoria, Charing Cross Road.

At this point we don't know what state the tapes are in. I'm thinking it could be a mix of stereo & mono, plus one or two of the re-recordings, but we're talking mid-fifties, it's going to sound dated at the very least.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 8:33 PM   
 By:   Jim Doherty   (Member)

Two things:

Joe Caps... I was lucky to accidentally find the laserdisc set of THE TEN COMMANDMENTS (at Half-Price Books for $3.00!!!), and am anxious to compare the audio to the that of the DVD.

Everybody... Man, I just looked at the DVD again, and listened to the Main Title and the magnificent first act finale, played back nice and loud. THIS is Hollywood epic music at its best. From the first notes over the Paramount logo, you know this going to be something big, then, that main theme hits as the film's title comes up, and you just get shivers. Same thing at the end of act one. When that music flares up over the intermission title, that is just one of THE best Hollywood music moments of all time.

Whatever label eventually puts this out, I praise you and am in your debt. This is one of the greatest Hollywood scores ever. And such a giant leap for Elmer! He'd done some really nice scores before this, but with THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, he suddenly advanced monumentally. This is truly a score worthy of a complete release.

 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 8:53 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

Much as I like Bernstein and this terrific score, it's never sounded much like an Elmer Bernstein score to me. It's always sounded to me like his odd-man-out – it's usually easy to spot a Bernstein score whatever the genre or decade, but to this day (having first thrilled to the music as a kid at its premiere engagement) and after hundreds of playings since, it STILL doesn't sound much like Bernstein to me.
It's not only that I barely hear his future voice in there, but in all the years afterwards I've rarely (The Buccaneer perhaps?) heard anything of his that harks back to The Ten Commandments. It's as if it's an isolated one-off.
Even as one of his early works, I'd have expected to hear more of his signature styles, even in embryo form. At the same time, I think The Ten Commandments mostly sounds very mature with a complexity and panache one wouldn't expect from such a youthful newcomer to epic scores. It's so huge and authoritative and "DeMille", it's almost as if the music has more of DeMille's personality about it than Bernstein's.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 10:01 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

...and this is why I love Bernstein or any composer who gets tired of writing too much of the same thing. I would live for a Bernstein or Goldsmith or Morricone score where many would say "That composer wrote this!!!" And these talented guys tended to have whole periods, like painters, where their approach would change in some fundamental way. When I would hear too much of a signature sound that it tended to start putting me to sleep. He already did that in such and such film would be my reaction. A certain technique that you rely on is about as much repetition as I can take. The rest is a real journey, where the composer learns as much as the listener. He takes us along.

 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 10:13 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

Much as I like Bernstein and this terrific score, it's never sounded much like an Elmer Bernstein score to me. It's always sounded to me like his odd-man-out – it's usually easy to spot a Bernstein score whatever the genre or decade, but to this day (having first thrilled to the music as a kid at its premiere engagement) and after hundreds of playings since, it STILL doesn't sound much like Bernstein to me.
It's not only that I barely hear his future voice in there, but in all the years afterwards I've rarely (The Buccaneer perhaps?) heard anything of his that harks back to The Ten Commandments. It's as if it's an isolated one-off.
Even as one of his early works, I'd have expected to hear more of his signature styles, even in embryo form. At the same time, I think The Ten Commandments mostly sounds very mature with a complexity and panache one wouldn't expect from such a youthful newcomer to epic scores. It's so huge and authoritative and "DeMille", it's almost as if the music has more of DeMille's personality about it than Bernstein's.


And of course THE BUCCANEER was for DeMille also. Like you, I can't put a finger on another score in Bernstein's prolific output that resembles these two. Quite likely Bernstein in these two cases was writing precisely what his larger-than-life director wanted, in a style that no other director ever asked him to approximate. It was the end of an era, and Bernstein was astute enough and forward-thinking enough to move ahead using his own more modern ideas for the films he was being asked to score. I agree with all of your observations about THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, one of my very favorite Bernstein scores even as much as it differed from the rest of his output.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 10:40 PM   
 By:   philiperic   (Member)

Much as I like Bernstein and this terrific score, it's never sounded much like an Elmer Bernstein score to me. It's always sounded to me like his odd-man-out – it's usually easy to spot a Bernstein score whatever the genre or decade, but to this day (having first thrilled to the music as a kid at its premiere engagement) and after hundreds of playings since, it STILL doesn't sound much like Bernstein to me.
It's not only that I barely hear his future voice in there, but in all the years afterwards I've rarely (The Buccaneer perhaps?) heard anything of his that harks back to The Ten Commandments. It's as if it's an isolated one-off.
Even as one of his early works, I'd have expected to hear more of his signature styles, even in embryo form. At the same time, I think The Ten Commandments mostly sounds very mature with a complexity and panache one wouldn't expect from such a youthful newcomer to epic scores. It's so huge and authoritative and "DeMille", it's almost as if the music has more of DeMille's personality about it than Bernstein's.


And of course THE BUCCANEER was for DeMille also. Like you, I can't put a finger on another score in Bernstein's prolific output that resembles these two. Quite likely Bernstein in these two cases was writing precisely what his larger-than-life director wanted, in a style that no other director ever asked him to approximate. It was the end of an era, and Bernstein was astute enough and forward-thinking enough to move ahead using his own more modern ideas for the films he was being asked to score. I agree with all of your observations about THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, one of my very favorite Bernstein scores even as much as it differed from the rest of his output.


I think that I would add THE MIRACLE that recall or resemble THE TEN COMMANDMENTS - specifically the soundtrack to the film and not Bernstein's own rerecording .

 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 11:40 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

Much as I like Bernstein and this terrific score, it's never sounded much like an Elmer Bernstein score to me. It's always sounded to me like his odd-man-out – it's usually easy to spot a Bernstein score whatever the genre or decade, but to this day (having first thrilled to the music as a kid at its premiere engagement) and after hundreds of playings since, it STILL doesn't sound much like Bernstein to me.
It's not only that I barely hear his future voice in there, but in all the years afterwards I've rarely (The Buccaneer perhaps?) heard anything of his that harks back to The Ten Commandments. It's as if it's an isolated one-off.
Even as one of his early works, I'd have expected to hear more of his signature styles, even in embryo form. At the same time, I think The Ten Commandments mostly sounds very mature with a complexity and panache one wouldn't expect from such a youthful newcomer to epic scores. It's so huge and authoritative and "DeMille", it's almost as if the music has more of DeMille's personality about it than Bernstein's.


I'm glad to see I'm not alone....I've always thought this too. TTC and to some degree THE BUCCANEER have always sounded to my ears the least "Bernstein" of all Bernstein scores.
And I've always had a pretty good ear at picking out composers just by their style.
Still love the score though.

 
 Posted:   Jul 27, 2013 - 12:03 AM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

double post

 
 Posted:   Jul 27, 2013 - 12:21 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

Much as I like Bernstein and this terrific score, it's never sounded much like an Elmer Bernstein score to me. It's always sounded to me like his odd-man-out – it's usually easy to spot a Bernstein score whatever the genre or decade, but to this day (having first thrilled to the music as a kid at its premiere engagement) and after hundreds of playings since, it STILL doesn't sound much like Bernstein to me.
It's not only that I barely hear his future voice in there, but in all the years afterwards I've rarely (The Buccaneer perhaps?) heard anything of his that harks back to The Ten Commandments. It's as if it's an isolated one-off.
Even as one of his early works, I'd have expected to hear more of his signature styles, even in embryo form. At the same time, I think The Ten Commandments mostly sounds very mature with a complexity and panache one wouldn't expect from such a youthful newcomer to epic scores. It's so huge and authoritative and "DeMille", it's almost as if the music has more of DeMille's personality about it than Bernstein's.



I'm glad to see I'm not alone....I've always thought this too. TTC and to some degree THE BUCCANEER have always sounded to my ears the least "Bernstein" of all Bernstein scores.
And I've always had a pretty good ear at picking out composers just by their style.
Still love the score though.







I don't know anything at all about the circumstances of his scoring for DeMille. Due to Bernstein's inexperience of such a huge project, might the orchestrators have taken tighter control of Bernstein's themes and melodies and ended up playing a more prominent role than usual, resulting in us hearing their voices (and DeMille's) over Bernstein's?
I suppose I'm thinking of a situation like Hamlisch's excellent "The Swimmer" where a lot of the time I hear less Hamlisch and much more Shuken/Hayes (and therefore, ironically, Bernstein).

 
 Posted:   Jul 27, 2013 - 7:58 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)



I don't know anything at all about the circumstances of his scoring for DeMille. Due to Bernstein's inexperience of such a huge project, might the orchestrators have taken tighter control of Bernstein's themes and melodies and ended up playing a more prominent role than usual, resulting in us hearing their voices (and DeMille's) over Bernstein's?
I suppose I'm thinking of a situation like Hamlisch's excellent "The Swimmer" where a lot of the time I hear less Hamlisch and much more Shuken/Hayes (and therefore, ironically, Bernstein).



It's generally understood that Cecil was breathing down Elmer's back most of the time with his usual mixture of exalted inspirational flattery, and the subtle crack of the Von Stroheim whip. EB never complained though, because it was so prestigious an opportunity, and was ever after grateful.

Victor Young could not complete the score, being very ill, and Elmer was asked to write in a sort of Young-cum-Wagnerian style. In practice this meant less dissonance and very conventional harmonics and intervals in a Romantic style. EB, left to his own devices would've brought more of these elements into the mix, a la Rozsa perhaps. Originally EB was meant to write only the dances, and some 'African' intervals involved in the 'Egyptian' music do turn up also in the main leitmotif score. Listen to the 'River of Blood' bit and it's pure negro spiritual minus voices. This is a very apt style, given its 'slavery', 'religious' and 'African' associations. Elmer would probably have given us more of this.

'The Buccaneer' because of its period setting required the same 'Romantic' idea, with a bit of Americana thrown in.

 
 Posted:   Jul 27, 2013 - 8:11 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)


the stereo tracks were marked left, strings, center, woodwinds, right - horns.
But this was not true.
they were two channel tracks. Tracks center and right were actually dupes of each other.
If all three tracks are mixed as a stereo track, the sound almost mono, Which probably explains why most of the stereo remixes dones for dvd, sound more mono all the time.



The usual rough thing is for strings and horns to be left, main brass and percussion right, and woodwinds in the middle. Not unlike an orchestra layout in fact.

They'd put the woodwinds in the middle for the dances I think, meant to be on-scene. It sounds from this as if the original intent for the mix got cocked up along the line somewhere.

Sometimes though, too much separation with 'Romantic' music can cause separation of the sections of the orchestra, giving an odd sound, and no 'mixing' of harmony and melody. A guy sitting at the right of the theatre might hear something very different from someone on the left. So maybe they re-mixed the channels after experimentational run-throughs?

 
 Posted:   Jul 27, 2013 - 8:12 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

Any word on the release date of Elmer Bernstein's The Ten Commandments soundtrack.

They were going to release it, but they got cold feet, so they had to wander in the wilderness for 40 years until they were ready again.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 27, 2013 - 3:45 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

Any word on the release date of Elmer Bernstein's The Ten Commandments soundtrack.

They were going to release it, but they got cold feet, so they had to wander in the wilderness for 40 years until they were ready again.




40 years! Yikes! I won't be alive by then! smile

 
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