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I just saw this Varese CD in a second hand store. Before I am going to spend my money, I would like to hear your opinions on this score, since I do knot know the film or the music.
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I love it, but if you REALLY want to know about, just ask Danny boy(Hobgood, that is! )!
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Posted: |
Jan 16, 2002 - 8:19 PM
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By: |
Tom Servo
(Member)
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Depends: how much do you enjoy avant-garde Goldsmith scores?
It is one of best scores of the last 10 years, IMHO, right up there with TOTAL RECALL, 13TH WARRIOR, BASIC INSTINCT, THE EDGE, RUDY, and GHOST AND THE DARKNESS. The main theme has is parallel to BASIC INSTINCT, but the meat of the score alternates between optimistic brass/strings for the early "science" sections and harsh yet riveting percussive action bombast for the latter half.
Parts of it are avant-garde almost in the manner of his 70's scores. Certainly worth a listen, but give it a few spins before judging it.
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Posted: |
Jan 16, 2002 - 10:35 PM
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By: |
David Maxx
(Member)
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Christian, you better pick up that baby fast! HOLLOW MAN is my favorite and therefore, in my opinion, Jerry Goldsmith's best ever! I think it should go up with his other classics like TOTAL RECALL, POLTERGEIST, THE OMEN, PLANET OF THE APES, LIONHEART, BASIC INSTINCT, etc. (yes, it is that good!). The movie may be known for being mediocre (I like it too though), but the music is another story. The album is not complete, but it has around 3/5 of the score and the best selection of cues to make it a very listenable album.
As far as the score itself goes, it presents a lot of new motifs (at least I have never heard them before) such as air escaping from a pipe, as well as a ghostly sound heard in track #9. It also has more familiar motifs such as the electronic whistling noise used in TOTAL RECALL and BASIC INSTINCT. The action tracks are to die for! Track #2 is one of the most beautiful pieces to exist, and the theme is so mysterious. It doesn't really set a particular mood, it just gives you kind of an odd feeling that cannot be put into words.
It may not jump out at you, as said before, but give it time. It is worth it!
NP: SMALL SOLDIERS [Expanded] (Jerry Goldsmith)
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"the theme is so mysterious. It doesn't really set a particular mood, it just gives you kind of an odd feeling that cannot be put into words."
I really feel that the main theme is Goldsmith's musical definition of invisibility. You can "hear" the visible becoming invisible.
It's a brilliant score, and I love it.
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Hollow Man is an excellent score for a less than satisfying movie. At first, it's cool, understated suspense music, and then Goldsmith turns it up, notch by notch, until it gets rather tense. I found this to be one of Goldsmith better efforts of recent times, and the music plays great on its own. Mind you, this is not the more colorful Goldsmith of The Mummy, this is more like a companion piece to Basic Insinct with a dash of Total Recall (which is probably no coincidence). Very well produced score album, too, with outstanding sound.
NP: Elia Cmiral Ronin (Varese Sarabande)
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Daniel, it is great to see, that you also are posting a few adds about film music.
I will go buy the CD tomorrow if it isn't gone.
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Posted: |
Jan 18, 2002 - 1:20 AM
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By: |
Dan Hobgood
(Member)
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Well, since I've been summoned to provide my two cents, all I'll say is that it's easily my favorite Goldsmith album of the last five or six years. Take the advice of the Kaplans and Bond, Jeff Bond: buy it, listen to it, listen to it again, and listen to it again. As a piece of music, Hollow Man needs that kind of attention for its appeal to become fully apparent.
You may love it as music or not. I'll bet that if you give it time, you will. But you might not...and that's okay.
Nonetheless, the score as score demands respect. Along with The 13th Warrior and The Last Castle, it represents the finest work Goldsmith has produced over the last several years--in addition to being one of the very best scores the composer (or any composer, for that matter) has ever written. The work is wholly coherent, notably accessible, and developed with the precision of a Master.
Daniel Cunningham's criticism is chock full of subjective fluff and rather meager when it comes to academic merit, understanding, and sophistication. At the heart of his film music theory is an emphasis on how the music sounds to him [its "appropriateness" and whether he thinks it is "good" or "bad" music]. This is quite narrow-minded and ignores the extreme importance of communication and code in film/film music. In essence, what Daniel does during the filmic experience is refuse to accept someone else's opinion/take on events as expressed through musical voice.
Criticizing Goldsmith's musical decisions for Hollow Man demonstrates a lack of both understanding and logic. Goldsmith, a consummate dramatist, knows exactly what he wants his music to sound like. Additionally, he knows music's communicative potency and how to craft it to his liking. Goldsmith, along with Paul Verhoeven [an unscrupulous perfectionist with music, as Basic Instinct demonstrates], surely wanted the score to be just the way it is. Rather than simply respond by saying "Ooh, I like it," or "Ooh...what a piece of shit," one should ask the question "Why?" and look at things from the FILMMAKERS' perspective(s). It is their work, their voice, and, so long as they speak reasonably and with coherence through their artistry, we should celebrate and embrace their expression.
I could continue with this, but must attend to other things at present. In closing, I would remind Daniel [or anyone else, for that matter] that we as listeners need to think about music in film more sophisticatedly than we do wallpaper. Communicative consistency and dramatic insight are far more important than a score's so-called "appropriateness" or "goodness" [whatever the Hell those are]--and, in general, there is no one more skilled in addressing these needs than Jerry Goldsmith.
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Daniel, it is great to see, that you also are posting a few adds about film music.
GREAT SCOTT, NO(!!), please, don't encourage him! Really, the ONLY way to deal with this guy is to basically ignore him. He's been posting his endless tirades about Goldsmith's shortcomings as a film composer (and to a lesser degree the greatness of Media Ventures) for years now here at the board. Believe me, whatever Dannyboy posts about Goldsmith here, we've all read it uncounted times already.
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Posted: |
Jan 18, 2002 - 3:22 PM
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By: |
Dan Hobgood
(Member)
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Make no mistake, film music must be accessible. Still, it must be sophisticated, too. A composer should not simply "dumb down" his music.
What Goldsmith is especially gifted at is being accessibly sophisticated; that is, through his music, prompting audience understanding and interpretation in ways of which they may not even be consciously aware. Many great instances of this occur in my favorite film score, Hoosiers.
Additionally, they occur in Hollow Man. Check out the interlude between Linda and Sebastian early in the film for an example.
Also, there are many people that seemed to like Hollow Man just fine the way it is. Starting with Verhoeven, moving on to Leonard Maltin, to the film score aficionados found here, and to the people I know personally.
Regardless, Hollow Man simply is not dinner conversation music. It is a film score, to be appreciated in a communicative sense. It is flawed listening to dismiss it because it does meet personal taste/liking. What if it wasn't meant to make people smile or feel pleasant, so on and so forth?
The most accurate statement one could make about Hollow Man is a variation of the following:
While the score's music might not appeal to everyone in and of itself, it is coherent and provides an accessible, consistent interpretation of the film's events.
That is a fair assessment of the score. I am not too keen on the music in Hans Zimmer's Mission: Impossible--2 score or Howard Shore's Scanners, but, nonetheless, must respect these composers' works. The statement I made above in regard to Goldsmith's Hollow Man equally applies to those efforts. [Although I see greater insight and musical commentary in Goldsmith's piece.]
Point is, strictly musical criticism of film scoring neglects altogether whatever insightful expression a film composer has incorporated into a picture, which is a real shame.
DH
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Three things, Daniel:
1) The problem is not what you have to say and never has been. This has been pointed out to you many times already, but you're obviously oblivious to whatever other people tell you. This doesn't have anything to do with your opinions.
2) I'm not telling people what they must or mustn't do, but as long as you keep posting at this board I will keep warning new members that you're not actually interested in discussion but only in trolling. I don't think everybody will listen to me and stop responding to you because of it, but they can't say they haven't been warned. If they see you for what you really are just a little bit sooner that way, all the better.
3) I only rarely -- like right now -- respond to you directly anymore, and even then it is for the benefit of those posters who haven't been around for quite as long at this message board as some others have. You are a troll, and you know it. Admitedly you're good at trolling, but you're still just a troll. It's hardly a coincidence that you've been banned at Moviemusic.com and that you are banned here as well.
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One should always strive to maintain a reasonable level of decorum. In fact, I have in the past voiced that I didn't think there was a need to actually ban you from this forum just because you like to engage into wordy tirades. Funny though that you should feel "stalked" simply because I state the things the way they are. Even more interesting that you should feel "flattered" by it.
NP: George F. Handel Concerti Grossi Op. 6
The Academy of Ancient Music/Manze (Harmonia Mundi)
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Your opprobrious reputation seems to be perfectly safe, so don't worry about it.
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). 
