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This is a comments thread about Blog Post: How would you expand something like King Kong now? by Stephen Woolston
 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2009 - 1:21 PM   
 By:   scrapsly   (Member)

You are probably right Woolston, it may never happen. It is such a shame that greats like Barry have not had all their work saved via digital format so that it does not continue to just waste away so to speak. There are many Barry releases that need the "expanded" treatment. There are also many Barry releases that have never seen a legitimate CD release period, such as "The Deep" to only name one. I would much prefer a CD release of any of his music, but I would be "satisfied" with anything in the 256 range that was legitimate and a digital download. Barry is truly one of the greatest and all of his material deserves to see (and be heard) the light of day.

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2009 - 1:25 PM   
 By:   Hester_Prin   (Member)

Rats. I thought this was about the James Newton Howard score... would love more music from that.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2009 - 1:40 PM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

Once again, I will throw my voice and wallet at ANY chance of an expansion of KONG '76. I don't care if it is just the unreleased cues or a new album entirely. Just get us that music!

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2009 - 1:41 PM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

Rats. I thought this was about the James Newton Howard score... would love more music from that.

Whereas I love JNH's score, most of the unreleased cues in that movie are simply retreads or retracks of the music represented on the disc. The only real things missing are the jungle music and re-done Steiner cues (which we essentially have with the Stromberg version).

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2009 - 1:52 PM   
 By:   Misanthropic Tendencies   (Member)

Easy to expand King Kong, like this:-

K---------I-----------N-------------G K-----------------O--------------N----------G

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2009 - 2:07 PM   
 By:   Filmscoremonty   (Member)

For some tips on how to hear some unavailable cues dialog-and-effects-free on the Region 1 original DVD give me a holler. smile

flyman_77@hotmail.com

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2009 - 2:09 PM   
 By:   Hester_Prin   (Member)

Rats. I thought this was about the James Newton Howard score... would love more music from that.

Whereas I love JNH's score, most of the unreleased cues in that movie are simply retreads or retracks of the music represented on the disc. The only real things missing are the jungle music and re-done Steiner cues (which we essentially have with the Stromberg version).



OH.

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2009 - 2:52 PM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

For some tips on how to hear some unavailable cues dialog-and-effects-free on the Region 1 original DVD give me a holler. smile

flyman_77@hotmail.com


Why not just post it here?

Cheers

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2009 - 3:12 PM   
 By:   shicorp   (Member)

Many thanks for the interesting article, Stephen. Just one thing: I don't consider "King Kong" and "Moonraker" to be in the same boat. Let's face it: "Moonraker" could make quite some money if expanded. The problem is that there aren't any idealists like Lukas at EMI/MGM/EON/Danjaq (or whoever is in charge of these things currently) who would invest some of their leisure time to get this gem released. The fact that the master tapes are not lying around readily on MGM's shelves sure doesn't make things easier. I've been inquiring about this on message boards for years, but nobody could ever tell me if John Barry has ever been approached re: 'Moonraker' missing tapes. Since the movie was realeased theatrically with a multi-channel soundtrack, the producers of the so-called 'ultimate edition' DVD also didn't bother to look for it. All this is quite a shame! There's really no reason why these Bond sountracks aren't out there (save for the first three perhaps where there are really master tape issues). One would think that this would be a prestige project for a legacy as big as the Bond series.

Titles that I consider in the same boat as "King Kong" (or even in a worse) are "The Wrong Box", "Boom", "Follow Me", "The Dove" and "The Black Hole". I seriously doubt that we will ever see a proper re-issue of the album program of the first three and it's also highly doubtful that "The Black Hole" will ever make it to a "hardcopy" (although I would already be happy if a lossless download). Unfortunately, the market is really too small to make two versions of these titles available at the same time. Who knows if even the "first" edition of "King Kong" has yet amortized. Really a sad situation. Another title that comes to mind is "Born Free", although I'm unsure whether Columbia would have any additional masters for that one...

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2009 - 3:39 PM   
 By:   Steve H   (Member)

For some tips on how to hear some unavailable cues dialog-and-effects-free on the Region 1 original DVD give me a holler. smile

flyman_77@hotmail.com


I discovered this also.
Some of the cues in the rear channels sound suprisingly good. SFX and dialogue free, and in stereo. Makes me think that the masters still exist in pretty good shape. Managed to put together a pretty good expanded edition.

How would you expand something like King Kong?
Exactly the way Lalaland are going to do it. wink

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2009 - 9:04 AM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

Ok whoever has any expanded cues from Kong has to hook me up come on that complete score is a holy grail of mine!

 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2009 - 9:51 AM   
 By:   mildcigar   (Member)

Why don't we all go to Sir John Barrys house with our cassette tape recorders and in-built microphones and ask him to play his master recordings when we press "RECORD"?

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2009 - 10:14 AM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

Why don't we all go to Sir John Barrys house with our cassette tape recorders and in-built microphones and ask him to play his master recordings when we press "RECORD"?

I've had pipe dreams like that. I live about 35 minutes away from him and actually know where his house is. But I'd rather not get hauled off in the paddy wagon.

 
 Posted:   Oct 26, 2009 - 10:13 AM   
 By:   barryfan1   (Member)

Hi Steve (and everyone),

This is the third attempt at posting this, so apologies if it shows up more than once, but there appear to be Gremlins at work...

Long time no (proper) chat. I was also greatly appreciative of FilmScore's King Kong CD, as it has always been a firm favourite of mine, and the sound quality is terrific, (the booklet notes were pretty damn good too, matey).

Of course the only problem with it was the lack of any new material, and as you so rightly say, Barry's King Kong is in dire need of expansion,

as are many of his scores (dare I mention The Black Hole again, as I have already said here, it's been thirty years and we 'aint getting any

younger!). The reasons for this were discussed at the time of the Kong CD's release, but as you say, things have changed now.

So, how would you go about such a release? It could be a new complete CD edition (which would be preferable), or it could be a 'compilation'

CD along the lines of those done of Jerry Goldsmith and Bernard Herrmann material on Prometheus and FilmScore. I think that either would

be viable, especially considering that Intrada has already released second edition's of various CD's including Alien, Rent-A-Cop, Boys From

Brazil, Red Dawn, and Silverado. Varese have also re-released Runaway, and The Burbs, and even FilmScore Monthly have released The

Omega Man twice (thankfully, as I missed the first edition), and Star Trek II (an absolute must-have for me). Only the other day Kritzerland announced a Ltd. edition CD of 2 albums previously released by FilmScore Monthly (Billion Dollar Brain and Who Dares Wins). Of course downloads, or on-demand CDR's (along the same lines as Amazon's 2 CD Hulk) would also be possibilities, direct from whichever label decides to do it.

So going back and re-doing complete editions of noteworthy scores is not only viable, but vital, as expansions often reveal a greater strength

of architecture, and thematic development, as with (keeping it Barry) The Living Daylights for example. As to whether or not such releases

should take precedence over other scores that have never been available at all, is a matter of personal taste. We have to recognise that there

are people who would not worry about a complete Kong, but who would kill for every note of say, The Bodyguard.

Quantities would also be a matter of judging by title, just as any limited edition is, but in the case of on demand CDR's they could be prepared

to meet orders, and could theoretically stay in print indefinitely, as could downloads. I would imagine that CDR's would at least be slightly cheaper than factory pressed CD's?

Personally I would always prefer factory pressed CD's of the original recordings (I'm not a big fan of re-recordings), but professionally mastered CDR's would be better than downloads, and certainly better than nothing.

So, if FilmScore, or anyone else decides to do a complete edition of King Kong (or The Black Hole) put me down for a couple of copies of each!

Thanks for keeping the notion alive Steve.

Cheers,

Mike

PS I'll have to give that rear speaker idea a go, for both Kong and Black Hole.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 26, 2009 - 11:34 AM   
 By:   Doctor Plesman   (Member)


How would you expand something like King Kong?
Exactly the way Lalaland are going to do it. wink


Pure speculation on your part - or some inside knowledge?

Anyway - this is one of Barry's true Holy Grails left, along with the missing Bonds and THE BLACK HOLE.
And THE DEEP... well, still some true gems to be released... hopefully soon...

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 26, 2009 - 12:13 PM   
 By:   jkannry   (Member)

You are probably right Woolston, it may never happen. It is such a shame that greats like Barry have not had all their work saved via digital format so that it does not continue to just waste away so to speak. There are many Barry releases that need the "expanded" treatment. There are also many Barry releases that have never seen a legitimate CD release period, such as "The Deep" to only name one. I would much prefer a CD release of any of his music, but I would be "satisfied" with anything in the 256 range that was legitimate and a digital download. Barry is truly one of the greatest and all of his material deserves to see (and be heard) the light of day.

I'd love to see the expanded A View to A Kill but when they did the expanded Bond Scores they could find anything to work with for a View to A Kill.

 
 Posted:   Oct 26, 2009 - 12:39 PM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

I presume you mean couldn't. (Not could.)

Really? I don't remember that comment. Which doesn't mean it wasn't made. I may have read it and forgotten it. You'll have to point me at it. It'd be surprising and sad of something as recent as if A View To A Kill was lost.

Personally, I thought they didn't even look into it, as they only had time/money to expand a selection of the scores and had already prioritised on the ones they did. (Albeit I think I remember LK saying that if they realised the time/money was so short earlier, they'd have gone after The Man With The Golden Gun in preference to Live And Let Die.)

Either way, I side with you that I'd love to have it.

It still irks me that some of the best, most iconic, most popular film music out there can't get expanded. Still at least LK and co got in quick enough to get some of the more important ones done.

Cheers

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 4, 2010 - 6:24 PM   
 By:   walstromtew   (Member)

Probably the highest hurdle to overcome is the ownership rights. So many companies have been swallowed up by other companies the actual assets become questionable.
The fear is one of investing money in a reissue (expanded or otherwise) that suddenly is claimed by another party unbenownst hitherto. (Rather archaic phrase!)

We live in an age of technological miracles. The right person (committed to excellence and knowledgeable of procedure) could make a silk purse from the moldering ruins of any remaining sow's ear. The sudden appearance of THE THING from ANOTHER WORLD by Tiomkin after 60 years is a miracle of miracles and it sounds damned great!

On the other hand, the LPs of King Kong and Follow Me Home are, to my ears, quantitatively and qualitatively superior in engineering to the CD releases.

Certainly it is a black art (remastering) because the elusive perfect sound is in the hands of the Chef.

I've learned that, in the long run, almost everything gets released eventually.

Terry Walstrom
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1595587/Barryesques/The%20Detonater.wav


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1595587/Barryesques/Touch.mp3


 
 
 Posted:   Oct 4, 2010 - 7:31 PM   
 By:   quiller007   (Member)




How would I expand KING KONG?
Make him eat lots of bananas!!!

Den

 
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