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It's settled then. Kaufman is a prick
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Typed "John Barry" THE RIGHT STUFF into google and got this.
Interview with Ford Thaxton on Barry's scoring of ENIGMA lead to discussing THE RIGHT STUFF
"Ford A. Thaxton: There are a few legends that have arisen about you over the years. One goes that you wrote demos for THE RIGHT STUFF and CLASH OF THE TITANS, neither of which were used.
John Barry: That’s not quite true. On THE RIGHT STUFF, I wrote several things and Phil Kaufman was very up on all the rest of it and everything. It was going very well, and then there were certain problems on the movie down the line, and he needed an excuse for delaying the production. The details are a little foggy now, but I’ve always remembered my association with Kaufman was also one of the most dishonest pieces of behavior I’ve ever encountered in the movie industry. I’ll leave it at that."
~ Oz
Oh, great! I know that interview but completely forgot about that part of the conversation.
BTW, here's the link: http://www.runmovies.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=210:john-barry-on-scoring-the-enigma-&catid=37:scoring-session&Itemid=57
An Interview withJohn Barryby Ford A. Thaxton © 2001/2008Transcribed & Edited by Randall D. Larson Originally published in Soundtrack Magazine Vol.20/No.79, 2001 Text reproduced by kind permission of the editor, Luc Van de Ven
That's it then. Winkler and many Barry authorities were wrong. Conti is right. There are themes by Barry, maybe even a completed score (stored somewhere?), maybe the score or at least parts of it have even been recorded (where might they be now?). Truly exciting stuff!
Based on these researches, one has to admit that the liner notes are pretty poorly done, IMHO. Misleading and all.
Which pieces could have been recycled in later scores by Barry?
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"I wrote several things" is not the same as "there is a rejected score".
Cheers
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"I wrote several things" is not the same as "there is a rejected score".
Cheers
Mr. Woolston, where is your enthusiasm for the undiscovered music by JB?!
First, you say he didn't write anything. Now, that we have a contradicting statement (that has been published in 2001) by the composer, we can be quite certain that something exists, or existed until it got displaced or destroyed whatever.
We also know very well that JB can be cloudy at times when he is asked about something that he did. "I wrote several things" can mean anything. It can mean demos; it can mean rejected parts of a score.
The Thaxton interview makes it quite clear that, at the beginning, Kaufman was happy with what Barry delivered. Based on this, I suppose that JB's contribution could be substantial - not just (pre-)demos.
It's also interesting that Irvin Winkler says that nothing has been written by Barry. Did he forget it or didn't he wanted to be remembered of this story - which after all seems to be a rather unpleasant one for all involved (Barry, Conti, Kaufman, Winkler, Holst etc.).
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If there is a recorded score for The Right Stuff by John Barry, I want it.
I just don't think there is one.
I must admit, Ford's interview contradicts what I was previously told (that Barry left without writing any music), but I'm still sure there isn't a completed / recorded score.
Bear in mind Barry wrote stuff for a lot of films he didn't go on to score. Did you know, for example, that he wrote two themes for Once Bitten. But he didn' write a rejected score. (They were recycled into "Best Man In The World", by the way.)
Cheers
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Barry's Filmnotgraphy: http://www.johnbarry.org.uk/filmnotgraphy.php
Who could be asked apart from Barry and Kaufman, of course?
Who could still remember JB's exact contribution? Mrs. Barry should know?
I haven't checked Geoff's new(er) book yet. Does he mention TRS in it?
I'd also suggest that one should contact Dan Wallin in the first place.
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Barry's Filmnotgraphy: http://www.johnbarry.org.uk/filmnotgraphy.php
Who could be asked apart from Barry and Kaufman, of course?
Who could still remember JB's exact contribution? Mrs. Barry should know?
I haven't checked Geoff's new(er) book yet. Does he mention TRS in it?
I'd also suggest that one should contact Dan Wallin in the first place.
REALITY CHECK:
This is what we KNOW for sure.
John Barry was hired to score the film..
Depending on who you talk to and when you talked to them Barry either didn't write anything or perhaps wrote a few piano demos (This was the early 80's, Folks weren't delivering synth mock-ups of every cue at this time) and due to production delays and such (it was a troubled production) he left the product before SCORING THE FILM because if he had scored it and it was dumped, it would have been a very major event in 1983 for someone like him getting a score dumped on such a high profile film.
based on Barry's comments , the director and him did not part on good terms....
Clearly the producers stepped in that this point and wanted another big name to score the film and settled on Bill Conti (Who was a major TOP GUN at the time) to score the film over the objections of the director who clearly didn't want a traditional score for the film.
In the end the score to the final film is a mish-mash of Conti original score (Influenced by the temp track in more then a few spots) and music from a very wide range of sources (Mancini's WHITE DAWN is an example).
I'd love to see the cue sheet to see what came from where...
And that about sums it up...
Ford A. Thaxton
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Reality checks are fine - but there isn't much left of a plausibel reality to be checked today, based on the little and often contradictory informations we are given.
It's plausibel that Barry wrote something for TRS, even though there are contradictory statements by various people who say he didn't. It's also plausibel that Barry left the movie before he scored it in complete form. It seems to me that he left - or got fired - very late in the game. Whatever the true reasons for this move might have been. According to Barry, the working relationship with Kaufman was good at the beginning and then it became dishonest.
So, the questions remain:
- How much did Barry write for TRS?
- Who could still remember it today? Who would talk about it?
- Was anything ever recorded, as demo, whatever? (Legrand, for instance, used to record tons of his demos for his projects - and he kept those tapes.)
- What themes or ideas from TRS did Barry recycle for later films?
Besides, why was Conti so desperate to do this plagued movie if he was such a top shot at the time? According to him, he needed the job more than a vacation. He was not in the position to refuse it. How does this match with his status as a big name?
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Reality checks are fine - but there isn't much left of a plausibel reality to be checked today?
Rubbish.
You clearly aren't getting it (or don't wish too)
Let me make as simple as possible
BARRY was on the project, he MIGHT have written a couple of tunes, the film was delayed and he left the project and the director and Mr. Barry didn't part on good terms.
NO ONE has even claimed he scored the film.
The producers Hired Conti to score the film over the objections of the director and he made Conti's life while working on the project not exactly easy by demanding he copy the temp track as much as possible.
At the end of the day, Conti thought he work was quite good, took out a number of ad's and managed to get a Oscar for this work without it being issued on LP/CASSETTE (Not a bad trick).
GET IT?
Or do you still wish to bury your hand in the sand?
Ford A. Thaxton
ps: You are starting to those like thost "Birther" nutcases, you do know that right?
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So, the questions remain:
- How much did Barry write for TRS? ?
According to all reasonable accounts by Barry and others at best a two or three demos (MAYBE) but nothing beyond that...
Who could still remember it today? Who would talk about it?
Well the producers have been asked and Mr. Barry as well..
Was anything ever recorded, as demo, whatever? (Legrand, for instance, used to record tons of his demos for his projects - and he kept those tapes.)
Chances are he might have recorded these ideas on some cassettes, which I suspect where either tossed in the trash over the years.
Barry doesn't seem to be the kind of guy who'd keep that sort of thing around based on various interviews..
He might have sheet music he wrote down, but only he knows.
What themes or ideas from TRS did Barry recycle for later films?
Who knows if he did?
I doubt he remembers or even wants to.
Besides, why was Conti so desperate to do this plagued movie if he was such a top shot at the time? According to him, he needed the job more than a vacation. He was not in the position to refuse it. How does this match with his status as a big name?
You really haven't a clue about the history of this film do you?
It was a MAJOR HOLLYWOOD PRODUCTION BY A HIGHLY RESPECTED DIRECTOR (At THE TIME) and was a very highly sought after project in 1983 based on a hgihly successful book.
What composer wouldn't want to score a film about the history of the US Space Program?
They producers wanted a BIG NAME and Bill Conti was one of the DOUBLE AA composers working at the time and they did something that made him really want to do it...
THEY PAID ASKING PRICE TO DO IT!!!!
As it turned out, it was a smart call on Conti's part to do the film and the rest is history?
Anything else?
Ford A. Thaxton
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It's amazing Ford that your are not capable to share your knowledge without trying to insult other people, be it me or anybody else.
EDIT - Thanks for sharing.
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It's amazing Ford that your are not capable to share your knowledge without trying to insult other people, be it me or anybody else.
EDIT - Thanks for sharing.
Your most welcome..
Ford A. Thaxton
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Chris,
I think part of the problem is that there will be very little documentary evidence of what happened with Barry's involvement and what remains is anecdotal from 25+-year old memories.
Having been corrected on the point that Barry did do some writing (albeit probably only demos / sketches drawn up for the purposes of agreeing an approach with Kaufman), I think we have to accept that the process didn't go very far and that almost certainly nothing was recorded or vaulted.
You could take a punt that any ideas that might have been forming might have turned up in subsequent scores but that's all it would be - a punt. We'll just never know.
I sympathise with your great enthusiasm for discovering what happened and uncovering what might have been written. I'm really curious about it too. For me, it's the one I so wish he'd have followed through with. I just think we have to accept that whatever happened is just lost in time.
CHeers
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Barry's leaving must have happened fairly late in the game as my first edition tie-in paperback of the book features the film's credits stating, "Music by John Barry."
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