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Posted: |
Oct 15, 2007 - 6:31 PM
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By: |
danbeck
(Member)
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The Octopussy thread inspired me to open this on TMWTGG, in my opinion this is the most underrated Barry score for the series.
It is the first score in which Barry adopted a new sound for the new Bond (Moore) - with strings replacing the gittar on the James Bond Theme - and this contains the best version of the Bond theme on strings (in "Let's Go Get'em" - more fast paced than in the subsequent films - if you forgive the fact that it is interrupted by "that" sound effect...)
I also consider In Search of Scaramanga's Island a great track.
The instrumental version of the main theme is great also, one of the more melancolic for the series - more fitting to the tragic fate of Andrea than to Goodnight.
I also like the climatic music for the Fun House sequences.
Altough this was one of the more complete James Bond albums on its first release, this score would benefit a lot from a complete version, including the Gunbarrel, the scene when Bond follows Andrea at the Casino, and, specially, the scene in which Bond tries to recover the Solex as a cloud is covering the sun.
I also like the theme song, by the way.
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I don't really want to dump on your positive thread here, but THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN is easily the worst of the Barry Bond scores. In a word or two, it's rinky dink.
While 'In Search of Scaramanga's Island' is the standout track, that's not saying much. Compare it to THUNDERBALL's 'Search for Vulcan' and you'll see why it's basically a tired retread with a much smaller orchestra.
And the title song may go down as the worst of all time (yes, that includes Madonna's). Lulu, of all people, deserved better. This is a paint-by-numbers Bond song if there ever was one. And the lyrics are just... too much.
While I still prefer GOLDEN GUN over all of the non-Barry scores (except for Arnold's), I have to say it's a very bitter disappointment.
And, of course, the movie itself runs neck-and-neck with MOONRAKER as the all-time worst Broccoli Bond.
On the plus side, besides 'In Search of Scaramanga's Island,' there are some nice touches here and there (particularly the Asian-infused cues), and the funhouse music, while not all that listenable, is certainly interesting.
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When I received a MWTGG lp on Christmas morning of '75, I was so excited- my friends and I were going to catch it as a late Christmas day matinee, and I was thrilled Barry was back after the hiatus of LALD. After we unwrapped the gifts, and ate our Christmas breakfast, I eagely went to listen to it.
I was so disapointed, underwhelmed, actually.
That afternoon we all went to the Northpark I and II and I just had a gut feeling this movie was going to be bad. I was right.
I said it last week, DAF was the last great Barry score for a Bond movie.
Afterthought- How ironic is it that Christopher Lee could find himself in this mess?
He could have been a Bond villain extraordinaire. I had a friend who interviewed him here in Dallas at the time of the film's release.
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I've always found The Man With The Golden Gun much richer and catchier than the three following Barry Bond scores. The instrumentation has so much more variation than what Barry would be willing to later.
I think there were actually four after THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN, and all of them certainly 'richer' than it. Now 'catchier' I don't know, except that TMWTGG didn't 'catch' me. That may be because the movie itself was so piss-poor, but I don't think so.
True, MOONRAKER was a piss-poor movie, too, but at least it was a full-bodied, rich score (with chorus, even).
Now, with OCTOPUSSY and A VIEW TO A KILL I can understand your negligience (even though they are infinitely superior scores compared to TMWTGG), but THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS? C'mon!!!
I really love the many different reincarnations of the main theme.
This statement perplexes me the most. Barry does this with every movie he scores.
The Man With The Golden Gun isn't as mellow yet as Octopussy or many of Barry's 1990s works and that's probably why I like it so much more than most of what followed.
I agree that Barry got into what you call a 'mellow' mode, but the reason you don't consider TMWTGG mellow is because he didn't have the funds to make it mellow (that is, heavily orchestrated).
Perhaps there's something to be said for TMWTGG in its orchestral simplicity, but what it screams to me is "I can only give you this for what you're paying me."
Still, it was better than Conti, Kamen, etc.
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It works OK in the movie, which is indeed pretty poor. But on CD it's just a bit...thin.
Conti, Kamen etc.....did a lot better.
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The problem with the whole thing is again that the LP album doesn't include many of the highlights of the score.
That's EXACTLY the problem. Which doesn't change the beauty of the slow, instumental version of the Main Theme or the "Scaramanga Fun House / Island" cues
Even for those who like Bond/Barry music but don't care for this film itself (cannot blame them, but it's still IMHO a very underrated Bond film and miles ahead of DIE ANOTHER DAY or GOLDENEYE); do yourselves a favour and listen to the DVD audio, preferrably only the rear channels where the sound effects and dialogue are muted.
Same with A VIEW TO A KILL.
This will make a huge difference in appreciating the score, as with AVTAK. Both in my opinion being the most underrated Bond scores by far.
And the most badly needed expansions of ANY soundtrack...
BTW: Happy 80th Birthday, Sir Roger Moore!
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Posted: |
Oct 16, 2007 - 4:14 AM
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By: |
george2000
(Member)
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TMWTGG is a good score,I have always liked it.I can not understand why you so called experts,are dumping so badly on this score.It just goes to show, you know shit all about film scoring.The title track is great,and if you could hear the complete score,in all its glory,you would have a totally different opinion about the score.This is one of Barrys best scores,its just a sham it is not available in complete form.The only point I agree on with you MORONS, is that Madonnas title song IS THE WORST bond song I have ever heard.Also David Arnold,follows a close second to Madonna,as far as film scoring goes.
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TMWTGG is a good score,I have always liked it.I can not understand why you so called experts,are dumping so badly on this score.It just goes to show, you know shit all about film scoring.
Opinions are like assholes!
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Posted: |
Oct 16, 2007 - 6:25 AM
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By: |
Tall Guy
(Member)
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TMWTGG is a good score,I have always liked it.I can not understand why you so called experts,are dumping so badly on this score.It just goes to show, you know shit all about film scoring.The title track is great,and if you could hear the complete score,in all its glory,you would have a totally different opinion about the score.This is one of Barrys best scores,its just a sham it is not available in complete form.The only point I agree on with you MORONS, is that Madonnas title song IS THE WORST bond song I have ever heard.Also David Arnold,follows a close second to Madonna,as far as film scoring goes.
Hi George - you an Aussie, by any chance? Let me check.....yes, you are. Look, get over the rugby already! 
I agree with you on several points (I'm a bit scared to say which they are, though). For me, TMWTGG sits on the cusp between Barry's classic Bond scores and his very good scores, and while it doesn't for me quite fit into the former category, it's certainly great fun - beautifully orchestrated and presented with good humour. The one sour note is the blasted slide-whistle during the car jump. OK, maybe the lyrics to the song aren't perfect.
How do you think it compares with The Living Daylights - on a scale of 1-10, say?
TG
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Basically, I like the song. I just don't like its final arrangement with a faster tempo and that rock feeling to it, this awful guitar playing all over the place. It just sounds so dated. Lulu wasn't up to the job because of a cold (she said). So, it's obviously not a perfect song, but with lots of potential for a hit. Good lyrics (unless you hate Don Black's style of writting) and a very memorable melody.
But just imagine they would have actually used Alice Cooper's title song instead of Barry's. That's an awful song, IMHO.
BTW, it's a pity the east asian arrangement of the Bond theme wasn't included on the album. Let's hope, the album get an expanded treatment as soon as possible.
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Posted: |
Oct 16, 2007 - 9:04 AM
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By: |
Urs Lesse
(Member)
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I think there were actually four after THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN, and all of them certainly 'richer' than it. Now 'catchier' I don't know, except that TMWTGG didn't 'catch' me.
Now, with OCTOPUSSY and A VIEW TO A KILL I can understand your negligience (even though they are infinitely superior scores compared to TMWTGG), but THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS? C'mon!!!
I'm aware there were four Barry Bonds following, but I exempt THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS from my lack of enthusiasm for the post-TMWTGG Barry Bonds.
So no disagreement on the very last point. THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS is my favourite Bond score after 1969 (ok, maybe after 1971).
When calling TMWTGG "richer", I meant that there is more variety in it than in the following ones (ok, it has no choir), not a "fuller" sound.
I really love the many different reincarnations of the main theme.
This statement perplexes me the most. Barry does this with every movie he scores.
Absolutely. But I find the range of variations of the main theme bigger in TMWTGG than in OCTOPUSSY and AVTAK. You probably dislike the Jazz and the "Fun House" versions of the main theme, but I think together with the mellow main theme variations in the final minutes of the movie they represent a broader range than what could be heard in the other two movies.
Still, it was better than Conti, Kamen, etc.
We won't agree on Conti...
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The one sour note is the blasted slide-whistle during the car jump.
Has it ever been established that Barry incorporated that into his score? If so, it must have been a painful moment for him.
OK, maybe the lyrics to the song aren't perfect.
It's one of the few Bond song lyrics that actually try to relate specifically to the film. I'm not sure it was ever tried again since the song probably received less airplay than any other major Bond song.
On a side note, does anyone else but me think that the lyrics to THUNDERBALL are actually about Bond himself and not the villain?
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On a side note, does anyone else but me think that the lyrics to THUNDERBALL are actually about Bond himself and not the villain?
Of course it is- who ever thought any diff?!
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Of course it is- who ever thought any diff?!
Many people, especially when the film first came out.
Frankly, I think it's intentionally ambiguous. "He will break any heart without regret" and "He looks at this world and wants it all, so he strikes like Thunderball" certainly don't fit Bond and seem to indicate a cold-hearted, greedy villain.
But most of the other lyrics fit Bond like a glove, particularly "Any woman he wants, he'll get." That line doesn't relate to Largo at all, since he's obviously obsessed with Domino (even more so in the remake NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN).
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Back on track with THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN, I think I've asked this question before, but never received an answer: was Alice Cooper's song with the same title a rejected attempt at the main title song?
I haven't heard it in ages, but I seem to recall a Barry-ish tone to it. And the lyrics "the man with the golden gun in your face" creep into my head occasionally.
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Posted: |
Oct 16, 2007 - 1:55 PM
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By: |
The Cat
(Member)
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Okay, let's set the record straight on this...
Alice Cooper was a big Bond fan and after reading the end titles of Live And Let Die (James Bond will Return in The Man With The Golden Gun), he figured an ingenious way to make a connection. Having heard about Paul McCartney's contribution (and how he actually got the job), he believed that if he wrote a song with the same title and it will be a hit (with the right marketing, why wouldn't it?) the producers will have no choice, but to use the song with the same title. After finishing the song, he started the marketing right away and also sent the producers a version of the song, which went unheard by the decisionmakers really. Cooper's song was never considered by anyone who could have an input on this decision.
Later of course, the story got changed a bit. Cooper said that his song was rejected because it was too edgy (suuure it was) and if you ever talked to him about it, you couldn't go without the comment "and the just went with Lulu's [insert swear here]". In reality, nobody asked him to write the song in the first place. Last year, I worked together with a crew who shot a documentary on James Bond music and they were very thrilled about having Cooper around and such. After I told them what happened, they acknowledged it but decided to went with the footage already shot.
Two more things about this song. The first one is that the song now known as TMWTGG by Cooper isn't the actual song written for the picture. Yes, it's the samel melody, but the original song as delivered was much shorter and with the estimated running time of a main titles sequence. When it was recorded for the Muscle of Love album, it was considerably expanded with a new guitar solo, some inserts and an additional verse.
Here's another bit of Bond music trivia for you. Alice Cooper has another song called "Unfinished Love" in which he pays tribute to his "Bond association" for reasons beyond my comparision. At about 1:30 in the song, there is an instrumental solo, which consists of the James Bond Theme (or at least something far enough not to get sued) and an instrumental version of his TMWTGG song's reprise. It has been performed live many times with slight variations on this solo (more repeats of the Bond theme, an additional passage of TMWTGG, etc.) but the idea is the same.
To put it shortly. If you were to know the title of the next James Bond film, write a song about it, sing it in a few bars a couple of times, than pulling a demo casette down the toilet, you have exactly the same right to claim that your song was rejected as Cooper does.
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