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Posted: |
Mar 20, 2018 - 9:23 PM
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By: |
Heath
(Member)
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I was trying to do a YouTube link, but these things don't seem to be so "disponibles" across nations as before. Plus the fact I'm a bit thick and could never get them to work half the time even before. Much quicker if you just type in "The Astronaut 1972".
Heath - Nice to see you around these parts. Yeah, Mellé had one of THE most distinctive voices in music, even bearing in mind his many different stylisytic leanings. I'd say that there are fleeting moments in the film which "could" be him - as in not completely unlike him - but on the whole it's a 90% "not Gil" to me. But you can all be the judges by going to the trouble of listening, via the YouTube link I have not provided, to the main cues starting at -
10:00
23:35
38:35
43:50
56:45
1:07:50 - which takes in the End Titles.
Funny you (Heath) should mention his being "credited", and the reasons for why he might have been. Well, I think you know that he wasn't, not in the actual credits themselves, but his name is linked to the film everywhere else. I know that you know what I mean.
Justin - Yes, some of Mellé's scores were recorded in Canada, but given the special circumstances surrounding the case of The Astronaut, I can't imagine why they would have gone to that bother. But I'm open to all suggestions.
Last Child - Would Gil Mellé have corrected the error in the Meeker book? I think it's more probable that he didn't even notice. I don't know about the more recent reprints, but my old copy is basically just a list of films in which people with a jazz connection make an appearance or write a score. He occasionally makes a comment like "excellent score by...", but more often than not it's just title, director, brief synopsis and "Music by..." But Meeker himself must have got that info from somewhere, so we're back to my theory that Mellé's name appeared as slated to do it, but ended up having to pull out at the last minute.
There are many distinctive features of Gil's music, but it's his string writing that really carves him out - that sinewy, almost metallic sound he got out of them. Quite unique actually, and very consistent. I really don't think he could write for them in any other way, and by choice. No sign of that whatsoever in The Astronaut.
The real mystery of The Astronaut, for me, was why the hell was Monte Markham wearing a dodgy wig periodically? I really couldn't force myself to study the film too closely. Skimming for Melle was enough. So I guess this will be another great unsolved mystery. Fine with that. 
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I was trying to do a YouTube link, but these things don't seem to be so "disponibles" across nations as before. Plus the fact I'm a bit thick and could never get them to work half the time even before. Much quicker if you just type in "The Astronaut 1972".
Heath - Nice to see you around these parts. Yeah, Mellé had one of THE most distinctive voices in music, even bearing in mind his many different stylisytic leanings. I'd say that there are fleeting moments in the film which "could" be him - as in not completely unlike him - but on the whole it's a 90% "not Gil" to me. But you can all be the judges by going to the trouble of listening, via the YouTube link I have not provided, to the main cues starting at -
10:00
23:35
38:35
43:50
56:45
1:07:50 - which takes in the End Titles.
Funny you (Heath) should mention his being "credited", and the reasons for why he might have been. Well, I think you know that he wasn't, not in the actual credits themselves, but his name is linked to the film everywhere else. I know that you know what I mean.
Justin - Yes, some of Mellé's scores were recorded in Canada, but given the special circumstances surrounding the case of The Astronaut, I can't imagine why they would have gone to that bother. But I'm open to all suggestions.
Last Child - Would Gil Mellé have corrected the error in the Meeker book? I think it's more probable that he didn't even notice. I don't know about the more recent reprints, but my old copy is basically just a list of films in which people with a jazz connection make an appearance or write a score. He occasionally makes a comment like "excellent score by...", but more often than not it's just title, director, brief synopsis and "Music by..." But Meeker himself must have got that info from somewhere, so we're back to my theory that Mellé's name appeared as slated to do it, but ended up having to pull out at the last minute.
There are many distinctive features of Gil's music, but it's his string writing that really carves him out - that sinewy, almost metallic sound he got out of them. Quite unique actually, and very consistent. I really don't think he could write for them in any other way, and by choice. No sign of that whatsoever in The Astronaut.
The real mystery of The Astronaut, for me, was why the hell was Monte Markham wearing a dodgy wig periodically? I really couldn't force myself to study the film too closely. Skimming for Melle was enough. So I guess this will be another great unsolved mystery. Fine with that.
Just to add a bit of additional information to the discussion.
In checking with the BMI database, I came across a listing for cues from "The Astronaut" by both Oliver Nelson and John Williams.
This would tend to support the theory that they score just used cues from other productions owned by UNIVERSAL in place of a new score due to the Musicians Strike that was going on at the time.
It's highly possible that Gil was slated to do the film, but couldn't due to the strike.
Whatever the case, it would be interesting to see the cue sheet for this project.
Ford A. Thaxton
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Posted: |
Mar 21, 2018 - 5:46 AM
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By: |
Graham Watt
(Member)
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Ah, now it's getting really interesting. I tried to access the BMI database myself, but I didn't get very far. Probably another indication of my caveman IT skills.
I did mention in my first post from March 19 that the cue starting around the 10-min mark (actually 09:45) is the only thing vaguely like Mellé in the score, but only in the sense that it reminds me of the later "Six Million Dollar Man" series - and yet not the scores Mellé wrote for the pilot CYBORG, nor his "The Solid Gold Kidnapping" (which was replaced with an Oliver Nelson score, but I have heard the original Mellé), but rather Oliver Nelson's militaristic snare drum and bass rhythms for the series in general. If that is indeed Nelson who we are hearing in THE ASTRONAUT, I wonder where it originated.
Same goes for the intriguing reference to John Williams and his supposedly tracked cues. That would surely interest Thor and his "John Williams' TV Jungle" threads. Thor, if you're looking in, do you recognise any Williams in the YT cues I highlighted?
Seeing as Ford got that Nelson/Williams info from BMI, what's the best way to advance our research? I've come to a dead end, but as I said before, that's probably due to my zero computer skills. I'm not getting anywhere with "normal" keyword searches.
Oh, and Heath, good description of Gil Mellé's string writing. I liked that.
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The problem with the BMI database is that it doesn't specify titles, so "Astronaut" could be anything. I often find multiple different projects with the same name and nothing to distinguish what is what.
And it also doesn't make distinctions between original music and stock music. Even original pieces for no TV shows or movies and even stage work and concert work, are there.
I even find working titles names, episodes of series entered as separate entries (as opposed to, for example: Knight Rider-BG CUES).
There's no telling what these entries are.
There is no listing "The Astronaut" and it's not at ASCAP either (and, by the way, I didn't find Gil at ASCAP).
In the mean time I'm going to change the IMDb listing to "(uncredited)".
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The problem with the BMI database is that it doesn't specify titles, so "Astronaut" could be anything. I often find multiple different projects with the same name and nothing to distinguish what is what..
But there is...
The publishing companies...
all cues are credited to the BMI company that UNIVERSAL was using at the the time.
Which further points to the fact that it was a total needle drop job.
Ford A. Thaxton
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For you Gil Melle fans:
Melle recorded an album that mixed jazz with electronics (not 70s synth stuff, but more akin to Morton Subotnick) called Tome vi in 1968 on the Verve label. Melle played soprano sax with a jazz quartet, and those sections alternated primarily with electronic effects. Never released on Cd but worth getting on lp.
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BMI utilizes a certain term.
If you want score, you can't just search "Astronaut", you have to search: Astronaut-BG CUES
ASCAP does it as well, though a little differently: Astronaut cues
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Posted: |
Mar 22, 2018 - 7:04 AM
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By: |
Graham Watt
(Member)
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Is "BG" needed for all soundtracks? Short for "background"?
So these two listings which Ford mentioned earlier--
http://repertoire.bmi.com/DetailView.aspx?detail=titleid&keyid=0&ShowNbr=83640000&ShowSeqNbr=1&blnWriter=True&blnPublisher=True&blnArtist=True
http://repertoire.bmi.com/DetailView.aspx?detail=titleid&keyid=0&ShowNbr=83640000&ShowSeqNbr=2&blnWriter=True&blnPublisher=True&blnArtist=True
I'm not getting anything on those two links, LC, but I do see all the Gil Mellé titles on one of the links you gave in your earlier post. I don't really know how it works either. Actually, it's quite fun seeing cue titles without the name of the films they're linked to. I can only imagine that "Panel and the Lesbians" and "Masturbation" are from the (in)famous scene in THE SENTINEL when Beverly D'Angelo goes cross-eyed while having a rummage around in the downstairs department. Kev will remember that scene. I don't think Gil would have a Blue Note jazz track called "Masturbation", although I see plenty of his jazz tracks listed (but not identified). "Polka" will probably be the source music that Burgess Meredith plays during the demented party in the same film.
I also recognise some cue titles from score CDs already released. Some from BORDERLINE for example, although again, as Justin points out, the source isn't always mentioned. In some cases though it is, such as "End Title From....". It's strange also how a lot of those "BG"- marked cues have a "0" BMI Reference Number as opposed to the others in the long list. And yes, still no further with how this fits THE ASTRONAUT.
I'll be keeping an eye out here. It's a good "mystery-to-be-solved" challenge. Oh, and nice to see an earlier post mentioning Gil's "Tome VI", which is amazing.
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