FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM

LOG IN Forgot Login? Register General Discussion • Trading Post • Non-Film Score Discussion  Profile • Preferences • Community Rules • Help/Contact • Search Board Search Terms:  Search Within:  topics posts since 2019 2018 posts 2017 posts 2016 posts 2015 posts 2014 posts 2013 posts 2012 posts 2011 posts 2010 posts 2009 posts 2008 posts 2007 posts 2006 posts 2005 posts 2004 posts 2003 posts 2002 posts 2001 posts 2000 posts users  search tips  You must log in or register to post.   Go to page:  1 2 3      General Discussion: STARSHIP TROOPERS 2     1 2 3    NEXT   LAST   Last Post   Posted:   Apr 27, 2004 - 6:45 PM     By:   c3p007   (Member) I found out a very interesting piece of information form one of the composers of this score.... It was written by two composers instead of one due to the tight deadlines of the production. A nice piece of information to find out I thought. Also Mr. Morgan hinted that Williams and Goldsmith both have done the same on previous projects - anyone know what those projects were? Has anyone ever ghost-written for Williams? And gotten away with it for that matter - I have neevr heard anything in a Williams score that sounds non-Williams - apart from that poor "song" in the Special Edidtion of Return of the Jedi...    Posted:   Apr 27, 2004 - 6:53 PM     By:   Erik Woods   (Member) Rumor has it that someone did some ghost writing on E.T. Not sure who the composer was, but he or she wrote one of the main themes heard during the bike chase. Don't know if it is true or not. -Erik-    Posted:   Apr 27, 2004 - 7:03 PM     By:   John Morgan   (Member) Rumor has it that someone did some ghost writing on E.T. Not sure who the composer was, but he or she wrote one of the main themes heard during the bike chase. Don't know if it is true or not. -Erik- the he-she was Wally Stott (Angela Morely). I don't think it was a main theme, but she used Williams' thematic material. I believe Fred Steiner did some work on RETURN OF THE JEDI and we all know about the last Harry Popper film.    Posted:   Apr 27, 2004 - 7:08 PM     By:   John Morgan   (Member) the he-she was Wally Stott (Angela Morely). I don't think it was a main theme, but she used Williams' thematic material. I believe Fred Steiner did some work on RETURN OF THE JEDI and we all know about the last Harry Popper film. A good ghost writer should be able to emulate the main composer's style. Bill and I will not make public who did what on Troopers 2. We know each other styles, we each wrote about 50% of the score, and we exchanged themes and commented about each others music. If we say who did what, everyone will say, Yes, I hear the difference, if we don't, Bill and I will enjoy all the wrong guessing.    Posted:   Apr 27, 2004 - 7:36 PM     By:   Joe E.   (Member) I believe Fred Steiner did some work on RETURN OF THE JEDI Where'd you hear this?    Posted:   Apr 27, 2004 - 9:05 PM     By:   John Morgan   (Member) Where'd you hear this? I was sort of assisting Fred at the time and peeked over his shoulder.    Posted:   Apr 27, 2004 - 9:08 PM     By:   Southall   (Member) I find this incredible. If Williams used a ghostwriter on a Star Wars movie, and on ET - my God - is nothing sacred? These are acknowledged classics! I know ghostwriting is a common thing, but I never thought the likes of Williams or Goldsmith would employ them.    Posted:   Apr 27, 2004 - 9:33 PM     By:   Moonie   (Member) ah the rumor mill , you gotta love it he he sd lets look at it from their point of view , if you were on a tight schedule and needed to get it done and you had a compitent person to nip here and tuck there, would you do it? Is it any different than a surgen(sorry if its spelt wrong)saying finish up here I have somewhere else to be ? sd sd    Posted:   Apr 27, 2004 - 9:59 PM     By:   Joe E.   (Member) I was sort of assisting Fred at the time and peeked over his shoulder. And you've kept this to yourself all this time?! How extensive do you think Steiner's contribution may have been, and how certain are you of it? Also, if he did contribute something, why isn't he credited? When was this that you were assisting him, and on what? Did you ask him about this work on Star Wars - Episode VI: Return of the Jedi? If so, what did he say? Any details you could provide would be appreciated. Man, we need to ask Fred Steiner about this...    Posted:   Apr 27, 2004 - 11:54 PM     By:   Neil S. Bulk   (Member) This is the very first time I've ever heard of Mr. Steiner's participation with Return of the Jedi, but considering the source, I can certainly believe it. Is it so difficult to believe that maybe Mr. Steiner worked on the revised "Return of the Jedi" (later called "Sail Barge Assault") or "Super Structure Chase"? Neil    Posted:   Apr 28, 2004 - 1:37 AM     By:   Joe E.   (Member) This is the very first time I've ever heard of Mr. Steiner's participation with Return of the Jedi, but considering the source, I can certainly believe it. Is it so difficult to believe that maybe Mr. Steiner worked on the revised "Return of the Jedi" (later called "Sail Barge Assault") or "Super Structure Chase"? Neil No, indeed, not entirely; to my admittedly untrained ears, portions of this one have always sounded different from the first two Star Wars scores in a way I'm hard-pressed to describe at the moment (for lack of an adequate musical vocabulary), but I've always thought they still sounded suitably "Williams-esque," particularly in light of how the Williams sound evolved over the subsequent two decades; this one score simply sounded as though it provided a slight "sneak preview" of the Williams to come, though still being entirely consistent with and complementary to the previous Star Wars scores. Surely the Williams evolution I'm thinking of can't be entirely the result of collaborators and ghosts (can it?). At any rate, I'd really like to know more about this...    Posted:   Apr 28, 2004 - 2:47 AM     By:   MMM   (Member) As I mentioned on another thread, I have it from a very good source that on STARSHIP TROOPERS 2, John Morgan ghost-wrote Bill Stromberg's cues, and Bill Stromberg ghost-wrote John Morgan's cues. There were another five cues that Stromberg/Morgan ghost-wrote together for the Morgan/Stromberg team. I know exactly who wrote what, as I saw the original scores, and Bill's cues were nicely engraved by a computer software program, while Morgan's cues were drawn using Crayola Crayons (John prefers the colors "fuzzy wuzzy brown" and "screamin' green.")    Posted:   Apr 28, 2004 - 8:04 AM     By:   John Morgan   (Member) Yeah, MMM caught me at the quick. I knew I shouldn't have left those scores out on the coffee table. As memory serves, Fred Steiner only did a few cues for Jedi, based on Williams themes. Similar to the few cues he did for Goldsmith STAR TREK the motion picture. Fred was always good friends with both Goldsmith and Williams and would always step in to help when necessary. I don't know if Fred got cue sheet credit on these. When I did some ghost work for Bruce Broughton, he always gave us cue sheet credit. This pays off as I still see money for tiny tunes every 4 months. The only reason some of these composers needed help was for the lack of time. Sometimes a scene gets so reedited, the music must be rethought and rewritten to fit properly. Virtually every composer I know of needed some kind of help at some time in their duties. Whether Liszt helped Korngold or Salinger helped Herrmann, it happens. I never would think less of anyone who happens to need help for lack of time.And it's worse now than ever....that is, the lack of time.    Posted:   Apr 28, 2004 - 8:09 AM     By:   Jostein   (Member) So what, if Fred Steiner did some work on JEDI, what does this matter? Film is a collaborative medium, it should come as no surprise to you all. All I care about is good music. And JEDI is certainly that.    Posted:   Apr 28, 2004 - 1:26 PM     By:   Joe E.   (Member) Yeah, MMM caught me at the quick. I knew I shouldn't have left those scores out on the coffee table. As memory serves, Fred Steiner only did a few cues for Jedi, based on Williams themes. Similar to the few cues he did for Goldsmith STAR TREK the motion picture. Fred was always good friends with both Goldsmith and Williams and would always step in to help when necessary. I don't know if Fred got cue sheet credit on these. When I did some ghost work for Bruce Broughton, he always gave us cue sheet credit. This pays off as I still see money for tiny tunes every 4 months. So, you don't merely "believe" Fred contributed to Return of the Jedi, then, but are *certain* of it? Do you know which ones? I might hazard a guess, based on my familiarity with the score, but if you know for sure, it'd be useful (well, not really useful, exactly, but appreciated). I'm still fuzzy on why Fred didn't get credit aside from the possible cue sheet credit...    Posted:   Apr 28, 2004 - 1:47 PM     By:   John Morgan   (Member) The entire concept of ghost writers is just that...no credit. This is nothing new at all. Fred has done the same thing for Alfred Newman on AIRPORT and GSET. I guess I had others things to do because I just remember Fred being involved and not to what degree. I guess you could call it an adaptation since he used Williams themes. On a similar note, one of my very favorite early Goldsmith scores was and is LIST OF ADRIAN MESSENGER. One of my favorite cues was the death on those wheeled spikes near the end of the film. I was shocked to find that Goldsmith didn't write that cue. I think it was Mort Stevens or some other CBS composer. Next time I talk to Fred, I will ask him, but he maybe hesitant to discuss something like this. I probably should not have mentioned it. LOL But I seem to remember a thread about all this stuff years ago.    Posted:   Apr 28, 2004 - 5:32 PM     By:   JSDouglas   (Member) I suppose a good analogy would be when a stand-in is used for an actor being filmed in a long shot - or an insert used of someone else's hands. It ultimately doesn't take away from anyone's performance that this happens - nor does it take away from a composer to have a few cues ghost written. I almost thought that John would reply, "You want the truth? You can't HANDLE the truth!"    Posted:   Apr 28, 2004 - 5:41 PM     By:   Jostein   (Member) Mr Douglas: I agree wholeheartedly.    Posted:   Apr 28, 2004 - 7:09 PM     By:   Joe E.   (Member) I suppose a good analogy would be when a stand-in is used for an actor being filmed in a long shot - or an insert used of someone else's hands. It ultimately doesn't take away from anyone's performance that this happens - nor does it take away from a composer to have a few cues ghost written. I almost thought that John would reply, "You want the truth? You can't HANDLE the truth!" I know, but I'm just curious about the lack of credit; even stand-ins get credit (sometimes, anyway).    Posted:   Apr 28, 2004 - 7:20 PM     By:   Warlok   (Member) So how much time did you and WS (henceforth known has 'Johrgan' and 'Womberg'...) have for Starship Troopers 2? What about Trinity? I think composers and sound designers, the audio teams, need to get together and formally protest the deplorable trend in time frames - really, being brilliant for 2+ hours when you have only 3 to 6 weeks average (I`m assuming here) is bullshit. I can see this time period decreasing over the ages too. Then the Feeble at the studios wonder why folks comment on "generic" scores.     General Discussion: STARSHIP TROOPERS 2    < 1 2 3  > >>  Go to page:  1 2 3   First Post    General Discussion • Trading Post • Non-Film Score Discussion  Profile • Preferences • Community Rules • Help/Contact • Search Board You must log in or register to post.   Go to page:  1 2 3

© 2024 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved. Website maintained and powered by Veraprise and Matrimont.