The score is very nice altough McNeely does exagerate on his "quoting" of John Williams and Bruce Broughton.

You will find The Desert Chase, from "Raiders of the Lost Ark" and The Circus Train from "The Last Crusade" on several cues almost note by note, not to mention bits from "Young Sherlock Holmes" (which he used more clearly on "Gold Diggers") and "Silverado".

But being him such a good composer and conductor, this "quotings" sound just like that and not like rip-offs...
In my opinion, of course.
[This message has been edited by André Lux (edited 24 January 2001).]

Is it because McNeely is ripping off what is to you better music?

Just curious here, Lux. Want to know how that labyrinthian intellect works.

(just playing, so if you're a composer who just finished a John Williams-like symphony or full blown score, I didn't mean you!)

But since you asked, to me there's a difference between a hack like Zimmer, who can't read or write music and steal from other composer -dead and alive- and feel so proud of it.
McNeely is a composer and a conductor and he is obviously an admirator of other film composers - as you can notice in the interviews and texts he writes inside booklets.

- Huinzimmer just steals and is proud of it, since nothing happens to him. He even mocks his fellow composers, saying 90% of what is composed today is crap. But this means he is even worst, since he is basically stealing from everybody.

- McNeely bids homage to the composers he like when he want. Simple as that. Besides, his scores aren't just rip-offs. You'll find loads of original music on it - and good music.

End of the lesson.

Bye.

I don't hate you. You seem an intelligent fellow who just doesn't share a lot of my opinions. You also tend to think your opinions are holy writ while other peoples opinions are out there just to be disproved.

Joel McNeely is pretty clearly a plaigarist in my book. Its unreal how much of Iron Will sounds exactly, if not note for note, like other pictures.

All I am observing is that you take Hans Zimmer to task for so much musical thievery elsewhere on this board, yet Mr. McNeely somehow gets a reprieve? It just shows me that it is not the simple act of copying that irritates you about Zimmer, which has always been your biggest beef with him. No, it is something else.

I think you must fancy yourself the voice of the film music proletariat, taking on the big boys of film scoring while giving props to the less notable underdogs like McNeely. You give opinions on their styles, but only ones that favor your overall view. I believe this is called an agenda, though you probably would never quite have the guts to admit it to everyone. For if you did, you might have to start owing up to the reasons for some of your opinions...

And thanks for the lesson.

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Big Bear:
...your opinions are holy writ.

---

AMÉN!!! http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/redface.gif">

[This message has been edited by André Lux (edited 26 January 2001).]

As a consequence, McNeely and Debney don't seem to have had much opportunity to stretch or grow. I'd be curious to hear them score something in "THEIR" style, whatever that would turn out to be, but I'm not sure it's happened yet -- or if it has, then the proof already exists, and does not bode well.

ALL composers can be fantastically derivative when they start out -- early Christopher Young and James Horner (putting aside later James Horner, which is ONLY derivative) are borderline embarrassing at times. I know my own writing was basically copycatting when I was younger, and I even knew it then. "Learn by imitation." Few of us spring from the womb as full-blown geniuses ready to challenge the world with our instantly grown insights. (Offhand, some do: Mozart, for example, but he's an unfair comparison to practically anyone.)

Based on their rerecordings for Varese, McNeely and Debney ARE superb conductors. As composers? I feel the jury remains out.

quote:

---

Originally posted by André Lux:

AMÉN!!! http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/redface.gif">

[This message has been edited by André Lux (edited 26 January 2001).]

---

You are such a clever boy, Lux.

My mom thinks the same as you! http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/wink.gif">

quote:

---

Originally posted by H. Rocco:
I haven't heard IRON WILL -- or much of McNeely at all, certainly none that impressed me --

---

Have you listened to his YOUNG INDIANA JONES scores?
Some reall good stuff there. Also STAR WARS - SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE is quite impressive.

Just my opinion, however.

Althought I won't be surprised if someone say that he "quoted" ( http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/tongue.gif"> to you Big Beer!) other people's work on it... http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/wink.gif">

It ain't exactly STAR WARS, but it ain't bad either. Ironically, the score where McNeely was most clearly 'subbing' for Mr. Williams ends up having some of his most original compositions to date.

So no, no blanket statements here, Lux. Just honest opinions of things I know a little bit about.

Think ya know me so well, do you?

That's what I was talking about.

But I don't care. This score is a great joy!