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 Posted:   Oct 7, 2003 - 11:30 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

You all probably know that Sergei Eisenstein was a pioneer in the realm of montages. As Andre Bazin pointed out, Eisenstein was among the filmmakers who believed in the power of the image rather than trying to nail "reality" onscreen. His montages had political and meta-fictional agendas.

Hollywood adopted the montage technique early on as an effort to compress time and space within motivational boundaries (someone building a house or travelling across a continent).

Music has been an important part of these montages - Hollywood and elsewhere - and one of the few times besides the credits that it is really allowed front seat with few or no sound effects.

A montage that immediately comes to mind is the "forray into luxury"-sequence from De Palma's SCARFACE. Moroder's 80's synth grooves connote "High Life" and a yuppie mentality, and have a delightful effect. Plus the music is mixed loudly with no sound effects.

What are some of your examples of good film/music montages, and why do you think they're so good?

 
 Posted:   Oct 8, 2003 - 2:38 AM   
 By:   SoundScope   (Member)

CAMELOT: "If Ever I Would Leave You"

In a very short amount of time, you are shown the depth of passion between Lancelot and Guenivere. The time they've spent happy to be together and yet haunted by the torment of thier forbidden relationship. Alfred Newman's scoring is just as passionate and haunting; frugal in its embellishments.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 8, 2003 - 10:33 PM   
 By:   cawriter   (Member)

Sir William Walton's music for The Battle of Britain's aerial battle is one terrific piece of scoring. There are no sound effects, no machine guns rattling, no explosions, just Walton's incredible music conveying the terror and horrific excitement of the fight over England.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 9, 2003 - 1:47 AM   
 By:   OZ.   (Member)

Marc Shaiman's wonderful throw back score for the 60's battle of the sexes comedy, "Down With Love" perfectly suits the remarkable film costumes, cinematography and production design.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 9, 2003 - 3:44 AM   
 By:   James Phillips   (Member)

One of the most stirring and heart felt montages I have ever seen is when Dana Andrews walks among the airplane graveyard in William Wyler's THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES with only the rows of planes and the solitary figure among them culminating with Andrews having a combat flashback.
Hugo Friedhofer's score speaks of the visual conflicts and fears of the characters in one of my all-time classic films.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 9, 2003 - 3:02 PM   
 By:   stan2   (Member)

If I understand the question correctly I would submit the following:

1) Dawn and the charge of the Teutonic knights from Eisenstein's "Alexander Nevsky". Music by Prokofiev

2) Charge of the French knights in Olivier's "Henry V", based on Nevsky. Music by Walton

3) Shower scene from "Psycho" - Hitchcock/Herrmann

4) Exodus scene from "The Ten Commandments" - DeMille/Bernstein (This may be stretching it.)

5) The colonel riding by himself and being gradually joined by his men near the end of the Big Country (The Major Alone) - Wyler/Moross

6) One of my all time favorites, the opening of the tournament near the beginning of El Cid (Battle for Calahorra) - Mann/Rozsa

7) Dawn and the start of the cattle drive from "Red River" - Hawks/Tiomkin

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 10, 2003 - 12:27 AM   
 By:   michael f   (Member)

While it's not really a montage, I love the sequence at the finale of MEDICINE MAN when the audio cuts out and it's all Goldsmith.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 10, 2003 - 12:33 AM   
 By:   BJN   (Member)

Things to Come, the war sequence and the rebuilding sequence, both with Arthur Bliss's music, which is... well, blissful. wink

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 10, 2003 - 12:04 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Some good selections there, Stan, but do you have any reasons as to why you think they're so good?

 
 Posted:   Oct 10, 2003 - 2:59 PM   
 By:   The Mutant   (Member)

BUILDING A TRAP - Predator
THE MENU - Jaws 2
ORIENTATION#2 - Escape From New York
CREATION - Sorcerer
PREPERATIONS - Rambo:first blood 2
CAPTURED - The Hulk
MONEY MONTAGE - The Taking Of Pelham 1-2-3
TO GILLIAN - The Fury
CLEARING THE STADIUM - Black Sunday
DESIGNING THE COSTUME - Spiderman
DRIVE TO SANTA MIRA - Halloween 3:season of the witch

I can't articulate why they're so good, or why I like them.I just think the are great pieces by great composers.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 10, 2003 - 5:35 PM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

Hi Thor

One montage that I believe to be very effective is where George Lazenby and Diana Rigg fall in love in On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Director Peter Hunt, as editor of previous Bond films, clearly understands how to utilise the technique, and as well as being (IMO) marvellously shot and acted, it could hardly fail thanks to Louis Armstrong.

It also has the advantage of the element of surprise, and remains a unique couple of minutes in the 007 canon.

All the best
Chris

 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2003 - 1:28 PM   
 By:   solarwnz   (Member)

I love those 80's workout movies that are chock-full of training montages set to some pumping music! The Rocky movies take the cake in this department - especially Rocky IV! Vince DiCola's rockin' electronic score really shines in this film. I love the extended version of "Hearts on fire" when Rocky runs up the mountain and yells "Drago!!!!". I listen to this all the time when I go running.
Also, while they are not scores there are some great rock songs set to montage in this film.

Another good example is John William's music in JFK. That movie (as controversial as it is) is an inspiring lesson in editing, montage and the use of score to tell a complex story and convey intricate ideas.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 13, 2003 - 10:04 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

You know, Nick, I was JUST thinking about the ROCKY movies this weekend and how the montages (particularly the jogging-up-the-stairs sequence in ROCKY and the mountain workout in ROCKY IV, as you mention, fit perfectly into this category). Seems like you caught me to it. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2003 - 2:02 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

An interesting non-Hollywood montage sequence is located in Godard's PIERROT LE FOU. As the protagonists are about to steal a car from a workshop ramp, they are accompanied by a scherzoish tune that suddenly halts and starts up again, as if someone is turning the volume on and off. The technique continues as the two drive towards the country, away from their bourgeoise lifestyle. There are plenty of interesting film/music montages like this in PIERROT, and Duhamel must have had a difficult time adjusting to Godard's tampering of his music.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2003 - 3:24 PM   
 By:   cine-sin   (Member)

Thor

I'm back!

I'm lost here.

Eisenstein's theories of montage were, in simplified terms, based on the conflicting juxtasposition of two images (concepts: metric, rhythmic, intellectual, tonal etc) to arrive at a 'third or single meaning' in which audiences became agitated and politically subversive.

How does this relate to Hollywood's use of montage and film scores?

Rochelle

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2003 - 8:30 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Hi Rochelle! Glad to see you again.

Well, as I said, Hollywood did not adopt Eisenstein's ideological use of the montage, but rather - with a few modifications - its pertinence as a tool to compress time and space, and/or connote a narrative theme (like in my example with SCARFACE). They're both symbolical.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2003 - 7:31 AM   
 By:   Zooba   (Member)

I think there's a good Montage with Music of the Team Winning Games and Traveling in HOOSIERS by Jerry Goldsmith....If i can remember correctly. Great Stuff! zoob

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2003 - 7:36 AM   
 By:   Zooba   (Member)

Some nice moments in GLORY with Colonel Shaw's voice overs as the Regiment is in Training and in their quieter moments in the camp. Maestro Horner truly gave that film a soul. One of my all time faves. zoob

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2003 - 4:44 PM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

I think Slavko Vorkapich, working at RKO and MGM in the '30s, did more to develop the Hollywood montage than did Eisenstein. He was followed by Peter Ballbusch at MGM, James Leicester (and Don Siegel) at Warners, etc, probably culminating (as a departmental thing) with Saul Bass in the late '50s/'60s.

Most of the examples cited so far in this thread are wonderfully evocative and memorable, but many, I think, are also examples more of brilliantly-scored direct, nearly real-time, continuity action, rather than montages, which tend to use very disconnected individual images to convey a whole idea or story point.

But, if you're talking simply about movie sequences which tell their section of the story through images and music only, then most of the ones everyone has listed are really excellent.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 26, 2003 - 7:33 PM   
 By:   stan2   (Member)

Some good selections there, Stan, but do you have any reasons as to why you think they're so good?

It has taken me a while to answer, but as I watch the smoke from one of the LA area fires I will give some reasons for my choices

1, 2 & 3) The Alexander Nevsky, Henry V, and Psycho choices are legendary and I can't add anything.

3) The Exodus scene from the 10 Commandments is less often thought of in this regard. perhaps one reason is that it may now look somewhat cliched. However, we ought to remember that it was DeMille who invented and/or popularized many of these cliches. DeMille starts off with dawn and a number of individual vignettes. Each vignette demonstrates what is happening at a personal level. It makes the events human-scale. Bernstein's music is constantly weaving in and out of these scenes giving us a sense of hustle and bustle that the sometimes static film, despite all the activity, does not always project. Finally, the start of the Exodus. (I had a friend who would start singing "From the halls of Montezuma..." when the march started.) This is an epic, slow scene. Bernstein's comments about what DeMille told him to do here are well known. And it works. There is grandeur, dignity, and happiness which are in no small measure due to Bernstein's music.

5) The Major (I made him a brevet colonel in my post) quarrels with his men who refuse to follow him near the end of The Big Country. He rides off himself to Gotterdammerung alone. The others left behind begin to join him until all are with him, including the foreman Steve. Moross' music for this conveys the sweep and energy of the scene. Almost without dialog the force of the Major's personality is clearly shown through the music and Charles Bickford's portrayal. I seem to recall that at the end of the scene the stony faced Major gives his foreman a trace of a smile. Moross's music, to me, is what makes the scene. Imagining it without music or with more ordinary music makes the the scene far less powerful.

6. The opening of the tournament in El Cid is a sweeping, spectacular scene. We are taken from (as I recall) from the narrow confines of a castle to the open vistas of a hillside. Rozsa's sweeping, dynamic music makes for a terrific transition. The music makes the scene exciting and dynamic. As with the other scenes I have described, the scene without the music would be more static and far less effective. The music and the camera do the work. The theme used here is from a Cantiga for Santa Maria of Compostela. Compostela was a famous medieval pilgrammage site. After a number of years of listening to the MGM El Cid soundtrack, I heard a recording of some of the cantigas and I immediately recognized the cantiga Rozsa used. What Rozsa did with it is nothing less than astounding.

7) The dawn and the start of the cattle drive from Red River is, as are the ones at the beginning, quite famous.

I hope that this gives some idea of why I chose these particular scenes.

 
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