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 Posted:   Nov 6, 2018 - 2:51 AM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

“Workprint” has a specific definition: it is a copy of the footage that the editors work on.

It can be rolled over with your wheeled desk chair, there can be scratches on the frame, it can get caught in the Steenbeck and get all crinkled, it doesn't matter because it will never be seen by anybody but the people working on the film. There will be splices everywhere, areas where the splicing tape is coming off, and grease pen marks to denote where wipes and lap dissolves should occur.

After an assembly is achieved, it is sent to the lab for conforming, which they do based the frame numbers on the side of the film footage.

(obviously, this process has changed because hardly anybody ever edits on film anymore)

But the “workprint’ of Blade Runner is not what was screened at Duart, and not what is on the “Final Cut” set; that's a specifically struck 70mm preview print. It is called “workprint” because it was an earlier version of the film, but the only reason why it was in anything even remotely presentable is because there was a copy struck for an engagement and screened twice.*

The actual workprint of Blade Runner, or Alien, or most films for that matter, are most likely long lost, and wouldn't really be easily playable if they were; they have probably disintegrated. Most of the time when you see workprint footage on a DVD or Blu-ray special feature, it was sourced from a video reference copy, and not the film itself.

* — The “Director's Cut” of Blade Runner isn't a “director's cut” as defined by the D.G.A. either… it seems that this film has a chronic nomenclature problem. There should be an after school special or something.

 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2018 - 3:34 AM   
 By:   Jeyl   (Member)

* — The “Director's Cut” of Blade Runner isn't a “director's cut” as defined by the D.G.A. either… it seems that this film has a chronic nomenclature problem. There should be an after school special or something.

And surprisingly enough, neither is the 'Director's Cut' for ALIEN.

 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2018 - 4:25 AM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

And surprisingly enough, neither is the 'Director's Cut' for ALIEN.

This is also true!

 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2018 - 5:16 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)


* — The “Director's Cut” of Blade Runner isn't a “director's cut” as defined by the D.G.A. either… it seems that this film has a chronic nomenclature problem. There should be an after school special or something.


The actual Director's Cut of Blade Runner is according to Ridley Scott what is now known as the "Final Cut", the previous director's cut was merely okayed by Scott (since it was more to his vision than the theatrical cut).

And while we're at it: the actual director's cut of ALIEN is, also according to Scott, actually the theatrical cut. That is the real director's cut. The home video releases of the "director's cut" of ALIEN have added some scenes, and Scott was involved and allowed the use of "director's cut" for marketing purposes and so there could be an expanded version of ALIEN, but he has repeatedly stated that his preferred cut and the actual director's cut for ALIEN is actually the original theatrical cut. (And I can see why; I like the theatrical more as well.)

The director's cut of KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, on the other hand, is really the director's cut of KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, a vast improvement over the theatrical cut.

 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2018 - 9:26 AM   
 By:   other tallguy   (Member)

IIRC Cameron had the same issue with calling the longer version of The Abyss The Director's Cut. He had final cut on the theatrical version, so that was The Director's Cut too.

Zarquon knows what you'd call the various versions of Close Encounters.

 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2018 - 9:41 AM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

AFAIK the only alternate cuts of Scott films that are considered the definitive ones are Blade Runner: The Final Cut, the test screening version of Legend, and Kingdom of Heaven.

 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2018 - 9:44 AM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

IIRC Cameron had the same issue with calling the longer version of The Abyss The Director's Cut. He had final cut on the theatrical version, so that was The Director's Cut too.

James Cameron has often said that those films that are available as Special Editions — Aliens, The Abyss, T2 — are called thus and not “director's cuts” for that specific reason; the theatrical cut is his director's cut, they aren't for general audiences, but are specifically for people who want to go deeper.


The director's cut of KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, on the other hand, is really the director's cut of KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, a vast improvement over the theatrical cut.

An important exception — the theatrical cut of Kingdom of Heaven doesn't make much dramatic sense, but the extended version explains why the characters do what they do.


Zarquon knows what you'd call the various versions of Close Encounters.

What I have usually seen:

Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Theatrical Version (1977)
Close Encounters of the Third Kind: The Special Edition (1980)
Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Collector's Edition (1998)

 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2018 - 9:50 AM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

James Cameron has often said that those films that are available as Special Editions — Aliens, The Abyss, T2 — are called thus and not “director's cuts” for that specific reason; the theatrical cut is his director's cut, they aren't for general audiences, but are specifically for people who want to go deeper.

However he has since gone on to claim the Special Edition of Aliens is his preferred version of the film, and what they would have released had Multiplexes been more widespread in 1986.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2018 - 7:27 AM   
 By:   Shock-Wave   (Member)




I saw on YT alternate shots of the alien's attack on Parker. But these scenes only last a few seconds.




Shockwind

it's not on youtube


I'll see if i can dig up the link - if it still works - but being a medical doctor student i don't know when i will have the time to look for it


It was on YT then lol. Someone must have removed it.

 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2018 - 8:41 AM   
 By:   other tallguy   (Member)

James Cameron has often said that those films that are available as Special Editions — Aliens, The Abyss, T2 — are called thus and not “director's cuts” for that specific reason; the theatrical cut is his director's cut, they aren't for general audiences, but are specifically for people who want to go deeper.

However he has since gone on to claim the Special Edition of Aliens is his preferred version of the film, and what they would have released had Multiplexes been more widespread in 1986.


As much as I love the scenes on the colony, they dilute the mystery of when the Sulaco shows up. Other than that, give me the automated machine guns!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2018 - 9:28 AM   
 By:   Nicholas_DW   (Member)

James Cameron has often said that those films that are available as Special Editions — Aliens, The Abyss, T2 — are called thus and not “director's cuts” for that specific reason; the theatrical cut is his director's cut, they aren't for general audiences, but are specifically for people who want to go deeper.

However he has since gone on to claim the Special Edition of Aliens is his preferred version of the film, and what they would have released had Multiplexes been more widespread in 1986.


As much as I love the scenes on the colony, they dilute the mystery of when the Sulaco shows up.


Is there any mystery though? I mean, it's called Aliens, is a sequel to Alien, and the main character is Ripley. wink

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2018 - 11:19 AM   
 By:   Tango Urilla   (Member)

James Cameron has often said that those films that are available as Special Editions — Aliens, The Abyss, T2 — are called thus and not “director's cuts” for that specific reason; the theatrical cut is his director's cut, they aren't for general audiences, but are specifically for people who want to go deeper.

However he has since gone on to claim the Special Edition of Aliens is his preferred version of the film, and what they would have released had Multiplexes been more widespread in 1986.


As much as I love the scenes on the colony, they dilute the mystery of when the Sulaco shows up.


Is there any mystery though? I mean, it's called Aliens, is a sequel to Alien, and the main character is Ripley. wink


Not so much mystery as suspense or anticipation in terms of having to wait to see the planet and some xenomorph action. I agree that the extended cut of Aliens is pretty much perfect, except that it would be much stronger without that suspense-relieving colony scene like in the theatrical version. Great scene on its own, but the film is better off without it.

 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2018 - 2:16 PM   
 By:   Jeyl   (Member)

- I agree that the extended cut of Aliens is pretty much perfect, except that it would be much stronger without that suspense-relieving colony scene like in the theatrical version. Great scene on its own, but the film is better off without it.

I for one love that scene in the body of the film. The colony feels like a completely different place when you're seeing lots of people going through their day to day routines. My only qualm with the sequence is how the Derelict ship seems to have shrunk to half the size it was from ALIEN.

 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2018 - 2:42 PM   
 By:   W. David Lichty [Lorien]   (Member)

As much as I love the scenes on the colony, they dilute the mystery of when the Sulaco shows up.

Yes, it's a different scene when it is so preceded, I definitely agree, but think it doesn't not work so much as it works in a different way. It is not a mysterious, slow reveal, where we imagine what must have happened. It's a tragedy. We've seen the life of the place, a deliberately unsterile presentation of a bas in a sci-fi program, very human.

And they're all just gone.

A L I E N S , in its theatrical cut, is a taut suspense-action movie, and I think the way people should be introduced to it. There are few movies that come close to what it sustains so well, for so long.

The extended version is a less taut, more dramatic, suspense-action movie, where Ripley's more personal loss of Amanda, and our loss of a family and a community, quickly but well introduced to us, play into the films morality questions surrounding not just getting away, but even destroying the species. It's the one I watch more frequently, but I wouldn't start with it.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2018 - 3:20 PM   
 By:   Nicholas_DW   (Member)

James Cameron has often said that those films that are available as Special Editions — Aliens, The Abyss, T2 — are called thus and not “director's cuts” for that specific reason; the theatrical cut is his director's cut, they aren't for general audiences, but are specifically for people who want to go deeper.

However he has since gone on to claim the Special Edition of Aliens is his preferred version of the film, and what they would have released had Multiplexes been more widespread in 1986.


As much as I love the scenes on the colony, they dilute the mystery of when the Sulaco shows up.


Is there any mystery though? I mean, it's called Aliens, is a sequel to Alien, and the main character is Ripley. wink


Not so much mystery as suspense or anticipation in terms of having to wait to see the planet and some xenomorph action. I agree that the extended cut of Aliens is pretty much perfect, except that it would be much stronger without that suspense-relieving colony scene like in the theatrical version. Great scene on its own, but the film is better off without it.


It works better with the scene for me. You get a tease of what's to come and the contrast between the pristine colony full of people and what the Ripley and gang find actually heightens the suspense. Where is everybody? Oh, you have to see it to believe it...

To each his own though. I'm just glad both cuts are legitimately available.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2018 - 5:15 PM   
 By:   alexp   (Member)


What I have usually seen:

Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Theatrical Version (1977)
Close Encounters of the Third Kind: The Special Edition (1980)
Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Collector's Edition (1998)


I should point out that the 1998 version is the director's final cut--it's a collection of select edits from both the theatrical cut and the special edition cut, but without the inside-the-mothership sequence.

 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2018 - 7:31 PM   
 By:   Jeyl   (Member)

- The extended version is a less taut, more dramatic, suspense-action movie, where Ripley's more personal loss of Amanda, and our loss of a family and a community, quickly but well introduced to us, play into the films morality questions surrounding not just getting away, but even destroying the species. It's the one I watch more frequently, but I wouldn't start with it.

I also think the extended edition does a better job at establishing a relationship with Ripley and Newt. Not just the fact that Ripley was a mother who just lost her daughter, but showing how these two characters are so much alike. Both of them are survivors who lost their families and way of life all thanks to the company and the Xenos. Now you could surmise that in the theatrical cut, but seeing what Newt lost and how she ended up when the marines arrive to me is far more gratifying in a story telling manner.

And just to put this out there, I can't watch the theatrical edition of the film if it doesn't include that short exchange between Ripley and Hicks at the end. I know some fans don't like the scene whether it was the acting or that Ripley wouldn't stop for a short chat, but I give it a pass because it gave us a nice moment for Ripley to say goodbye to Hicks knowing that she may not survive. It added a lot to her likability knowing that even though she's dead set on rescuing Newt, she hasn't forgotten how Hicks. I LOVE these characters!

 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2018 - 7:49 PM   
 By:   gmontag451   (Member)

James Cameron has often said that those films that are available as Special Editions — Aliens, The Abyss, T2 — are called thus and not “director's cuts” for that specific reason; the theatrical cut is his director's cut, they aren't for general audiences, but are specifically for people who want to go deeper.


I recall that the Terminator 2 Special Edition laserdisc had a bit of text by Cameron in which he described it as an example of what is (and isn't) necessary to make a good film. Unfortunately I gave away my LD long ago, so I can't provide an exact quote. (Maybe it's on the DVD/BluRay?)

 
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