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 Posted:   Mar 5, 2018 - 6:15 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

I can't imagine "The Birds" with a score, nor do I desire one. I can't imagine "Jaws" without a score. I can imagine a better score for a film with a score. Weird. What say you?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2018 - 6:46 PM   
 By:   purplemonkeydishwasher   (Member)

This had me curious to go look on youtube to see if anyone had posted clips of "The Birds" with music added, and I found there were a number of them! This one is pretty good:



It looks like there are a couple of posts comparing "Jaws" with and without music as well.

Didn't see that there were any postings of "Jaws" with the "Birds" sound effects added though. Somebody needs to get on that. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2018 - 6:53 PM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

Well done!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 2:31 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

If a score is conceptualized with or without a score, it is indeed hard to imagine the alternative.

Might make for an interesting experiment, though.

For example, in this scene they've removed the music from JURASSIC PARK, but as you can clearly see -- Spielberg has created several scenes where Williams' music is INTENDED to soar (like the slow zoom-in on Sam Neill's face; the classic "Spielberg face") at a later point in production.

So these experiments will always be forced and "fake" (and the tempo of the scene will be off). It's never just a matter of optional score/no score.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 4:39 AM   
 By:   jenkwombat   (Member)

I've seen an excerpt of the carbon freezing scene from The Empire Strikes Back without the music, and needless to say, it's not nearly as dramatic without John Williams's score....

 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 4:42 AM   
 By:   Erik Woods   (Member)

Dunkirk would have been a more tolerable film without Zimmer's obnoxious score.

BTW, I'm not here to start a Zimmer bashing thread. I love a good majority of Zimmer's work but his work on Dunkirk absolutely ruined that film for me. So much so that I never want to see that film again.

-Erik-

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 4:56 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

It's a topic that's come up many times before. I love THE BIRDS as it is, but in this case if it HAD been conceived as having a "conventional" music score, then that YT clip indicates that it might have been quite effective.

In other cases, I know what Thor means. The JURASSIC PARK example is good, but there are many more. From Spielberg alone, what would E.T. or RAIDERS be like without the music? It's not as if they're supposed to be the height of realism, in fact quite the opposite. In a way it's a bit like a ballet. Some (most?) films are made with the whole sound concept in mind. So it's hardly surprising that a lot of movies will look VERY odd without the music, as odd as watching a ballet in silence.

 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 5:00 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Hitchcock and Spielberg are two masters in film making. So I guess it goes to reason they film and cut a scene without or without music in mind. But does it apply across the board?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 5:03 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

It's a topic that's come up many times before. I love THE BIRDS as it is, but in this case if it HAD been conceived as having a "conventional" music score, then that YT clip indicates that it might have been quite effective.



You know what? If The Birds had been released with a conventional score (whether by Herrmann, Addison, Goodwin or anyone else) nobody - NOBODY - would be saying "Hey, that film would have been much better with no music".

I doubt if anyone here has ever said that about a film, with the possible exception of Dunkirk (and of course I've seen Erik's post, above, and I assume he would have preferred OTHER music rather than NO music). Although that isn't a conventional score...

 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 5:31 AM   
 By:   judy the hutt   (Member)

this is a great topic. I hope you can come up with other examples.

I have seen the Boston Pops programs where they played a scene i.e., Jaws - I think it was the either Sea Attack Number One or Two Barrel Chase without the music, then included the scene again with the music. Was phenomenal.

 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 5:37 AM   
 By:   Erik Woods   (Member)


I doubt if anyone here has ever said that about a film, with the possible exception of Dunkirk (and of course I've seen Erik's post, above, and I assume he would have preferred OTHER music rather than NO music). Although that isn't a conventional score...


Nope. I think the film would have been far more effective with a Saving Private Ryan approach to scoring. I would have loved to just hear the sweet sounds of Spitfire's screaming across the sky in battle without annoying suspense music filling the entire sound spectrum.

-Erik-

 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 5:45 AM   
 By:   Erik Woods   (Member)

One of the very best action sequences in any Star Wars film was left unscored. Here's what it might have sounded like if it was.

https://vimeo.com/54537023?autoplay=1

-Erik-

 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 5:46 AM   
 By:   acathla   (Member)

Now that Buffy finally comes with 5.1 audio I am able to watch without the score. It`s quite weird! lol!

There is also one episode from the show (The Body, season 5) which was actually supposed to be without any score. It makes it quite creepy and uncomfortable. Which is what Joss Whedon intended since it`s about a beloved character`s NATURAL death.

I have always wanted to make my own edit of it and add score.
Just can`t think of which cues to use where. Maybe some Max Richter score from The Leftovers would fit.

 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 5:53 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

One of the very best action sequences in any Star Wars film was left unscored. Here's what it might have sounded like if it was.

https://vimeo.com/54537023?autoplay=1

-Erik-


Oh, that's awesome! I like it. Though you know what, it worked fine without music. While logic says it needed action music, I think the sound effects were put up front and it really sold the drama.

 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 5:56 AM   
 By:   Erik Woods   (Member)


Oh, that's awesome! I like it. Though you know what, it worked fine without music. While logic says it needed action music, I think the sound effects were put up front and it really sold the drama.


I agree! The scene works BRILLIANTLY without music!

-Erik-

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 6:19 AM   
 By:   jenkwombat   (Member)


Oh, that's awesome! I like it. Though you know what, it worked fine without music. While logic says it needed action music, I think the sound effects were put up front and it really sold the drama.


I agree! The scene works BRILLIANTLY without music!

-Erik-


What scene is it? My screen is coming up blank...

 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 6:19 AM   
 By:   Erik Woods   (Member)

What scene is it? My screen is coming up blank...

Speeder Bike Chase from Jedi.

-Erik-

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 6:25 AM   
 By:   jenkwombat   (Member)

What scene is it? My screen is coming up blank...

Speeder Bike Chase from Jedi.

-Erik-


Ah, thanks. Yeah, that scene does work well without music, in a film that might already have too much musical score.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 8:02 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Dunkirk would have been a more tolerable film without Zimmer's obnoxious score.

BTW, I'm not here to start a Zimmer bashing thread. I love a good majority of Zimmer's work but his work on Dunkirk absolutely ruined that film for me. So much so that I never want to see that film again.

-Erik-


absolutely correct, Dunkirk is a far better movie without the score. But in defense of Zimmer, yeah, I know rare for me, I blame Nolan, who uses Zimmer like buttercream frosting on all of his films.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2018 - 8:04 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Remove the DUNKIRK score, and you also remove about 50% of the film's effective tension.

 
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