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 Posted:   Feb 2, 2018 - 4:50 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

I thought about adding this to the recent Giallo thread, until I realised that it's not relevant enough. So here goes - a whole new thread about Ennio Morricone on the Cherry Red label.

I picked up one in a "shop" in Glasgow last August (the beauty of brick n' mortar "general music" stores is that their selection of soundtracks is so poor that I'll get any old crap that I have in my hands, just to have something to show for the physical effort I've put in). But I rabbit once more.

The one I have is "Morricone: High - The Trippier Side of the Morricone Genius" ("Ennio Morrricone's beautiful and imaginative compositions for Italian psychedelic and art movies of the late sixties and early seventies"). The content is as follows - (excuse the English-only titles) -

EXCUSE ME, LET'S MAKE LOVE? (5 tracks)
FORBIDDEN PHOTOS OF A LADY ABOVE SUSPICION (4 tracks)
VERUSCHKA (3 tracks)
THE INVISIBLE WOMAN ((2 tracks)
SHORT NIGHT OF THE GLASS DOLLS (1 track)
CAT O' NINE TAILS (1 track)

The two Giallos come at the end, and are represented by only one track each. I'm not an immense fan of dissonant Morricone, but these two are quite intriguing, especially the hypnotic 8:35 (!) final track from CAT O' NINE TAILS (just a kind of semi-rambling build-up behind an "apparently random" repeating motif).

From the other films represented, I'd say that there's probably about one track from each selection which is unappealing to me, either because it's too silly or lightweight for my tastes (British viewers will be reminded of the theme from "Sale of the Century"), or exaggeratedly twee (the girly "la la la"), or "in your face orgasm" (tee hee). However - and this is probably my overall opinion of Morricone in general - when he's good he's absolutely amazing. And some of the pop-based, jazzy baroque melancholy, or just plain gorgeous wordless vocal melodies are among the best I've heard from Ennio. And there's a wonderful song with Edda doing her stuff behind a bossa nova rhythm and Bacharachesque (sp?) trumpet or flugelhorn or something.

So, to get to the bleedin' point - the questions...

1) If you have this album, what's your opinion of it?

2) Are full scores available for all the films represented on the disc? Which are your favourites as a sustained listening experience?

3) I see from the Cherry Red catalogue that there are a few more Ennio compilations on the label. One title that attracts me is "Psichedelico Jazzistico". Anyone got that? Is it good?

I promise to read all of your replies in detail. I may not however take heed of any "advice", in case you turn up in the "Bad Recommendations" thread.

Thanking you in advance!

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 2, 2018 - 5:00 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I don't have this comp, but I have all of those scores. This stuff is all top-shelf Morricone for me. Keep in mind you're hearing from someone who does not care about stuff like "The Mission" or "Days of Heaven."

I don't have the second title you mentioned.

Morricone's late 60s/early 70s period, including all those giallos, erotic films, and exploitation films, is my very favorite.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 2, 2018 - 5:09 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

"Forbidden Photos" may be my very favorite single Morricone score from this period. You get a nice mix of sad/introspective, a bossa, fake rock, and dissonance. It nicely encapsulates what Morricone was doing during this time.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 2, 2018 - 7:41 AM   
 By:   Thomas   (Member)

The only full score I have of those featured on that CD is "Veruschka". It's still readily available on Amazon I think. I'm the total opposite of what Onya said above, I prefer Morricone's other stuff to this.

 
 Posted:   Feb 2, 2018 - 9:05 AM   
 By:   MKRUltra   (Member)

Veruschka and La Donna Invisibile are probably my two favorite Morricone scores next to The Thing. Just so gorgeous. I only wish the recent Veruschka remaster/expansion from GDM in 2011 weren't impossible to get a hold of these days.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 2, 2018 - 11:15 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

Thanks for the comments so far, people! In your (plural) experience, would GDM be the best label to go for when looking for those complete scores? Morricone's output is so vast - and a look at Soundtrack Collector shows about a million different releases of every one of his twelve billion scores - that it's difficult to settle on any particular one. But GDM does have a lot of Morricones out (plus all those other Italian composers you all harp on about constantly).

Onya, I love most of the tracks from FORBIDDEN PHOTOS which are on the Cherry Red comp. The GDM (I think) full score is a double CD (coupled with IL RITORNO DI RINGO - I'm not sure if I love Ennio's spaghettis as much as his other works). Is that the one you have?

I must have a look and see what's on that other "Psychedelic Jazzistic Morricone" comp on Cherry Red...

I do LOVE a LOT of Ennio Morricone's work, but not Any Old Macaroni will do. That's the trouble with some of his complete soundtracks. The highs are sublime, but there's usually a bit of an annoyance factor built into the rest of the tracks.

 
 Posted:   Feb 2, 2018 - 11:46 AM   
 By:   MKRUltra   (Member)

Those GDM double CD sets from 2014/2015 present the most recent remasterings/expansions of their respective scores, so those are generally the ones to get--especially because each set is limited to only 300 copies, apparently. The only downside is that the pairings are often... weird. The lush, melancholy bossa nova textures of La Donna Invisibile paired in a set with the score for Machine Gun McCain? What?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 2, 2018 - 2:27 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Onya, I love most of the tracks from FORBIDDEN PHOTOS which are on the Cherry Red comp. The GDM (I think) full score is a double CD (coupled with IL RITORNO DI RINGO - I'm not sure if I love Ennio's spaghettis as much as his other works). Is that the one you have?

I don't have any of the GDM CDs. My copy is on the Dagored label.

My recommendation for Morricone is to start with a few comps, then pick up the full scores you like, and probably get the cheapest one available. These things go in and out of print and the prices can really vary. Be sure to check imdb or another source for all of the film title variations. Some of these films had multiple titles in different languages and even multiple titles in a single language. The various LP and CD releases can reflect this, e.g., Fear Over the City, the Night Caller, Peur sur la ville, Il Poliziotto Della Brigata Criminale. All one film.

There are many exceptions to my next generalization, but I'll say it anyway: In my experience, many expanded versions of Italian soundtracks feature a lot of alternate takes or very subtle variations on the cues that already made it to the original album. Not all, but many. Much as I love Morricone, I have not sprung for every expansion. Go for the affordable ones first, and if you're obsessed, trade up later. You can always unload the first version for at least as much as you paid for it.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 2, 2018 - 4:38 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

I'm baffled. I thought the EU copyright rule was changed to protect anything after 1964. So how is this label doing late 60s Morricone which is clearly under copyright and not being properly licensed?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 2, 2018 - 4:50 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I'm baffled. I thought the EU copyright rule was changed to protect anything after 1964. So how is this label doing late 60s Morricone which is clearly under copyright and not being properly licensed?

Not every release from Europe is a grey market release. Assumptions are never a good idea.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 2, 2018 - 5:41 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

I'm baffled. I thought the EU copyright rule was changed to protect anything after 1964. So how is this label doing late 60s Morricone which is clearly under copyright and not being properly licensed?

Not every release from Europe is a grey market release. Assumptions are never a good idea.


I know enough about El and Cherry Red and its various other subsidiaries to know they have never applied for a license to release a CD. Do offer some evidence to the contrary. Obviously there is nothing to be done about the gray area releases pre 1964 but if the rule was indeed changed for post 1964 then they're either willfully doing this or I'm missing the copyright notices on their packaging. Where is it?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 2, 2018 - 6:10 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Brilliant post coming. Brace yourself...

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 2, 2018 - 6:10 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I know enough about El and Cherry Red and its various other subsidiaries to know they have never applied for a license to release a CD. Do offer some evidence to the contrary. Obviously there is nothing to be done about the gray area releases pre 1964 but if the rule was indeed changed for post 1964 then they're either willfully doing this or I'm missing the copyright notices on their packaging. Where is it?

Why don't you show us some evidence that El/Cherry Red has never legitimately licensed a record?

Shall we assume that every release in general is illegitimate?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 2, 2018 - 10:37 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

I know enough about El and Cherry Red and its various other subsidiaries to know they have never applied for a license to release a CD. Do offer some evidence to the contrary. Obviously there is nothing to be done about the gray area releases pre 1964 but if the rule was indeed changed for post 1964 then they're either willfully doing this or I'm missing the copyright notices on their packaging. Where is it?

Why don't you show us some evidence that El/Cherry Red has never legitimately licensed a record?

Shall we assume that every release in general is illegitimate?


I have no problem with El or Cherry Red - if they get away with it great. If they are licensing from the companies that own the late 60s early 70s Morricone stuff, great. I've bought enough of their releases to know they are, at least what I've bought, vinyl rips or taken off other CDs. However, you answer questions with questions, which is no answer at all. If you have great love for them great. I can only tell you about the releases I have and not a one of them is licensed, all are in release because of the EU pre-1964 copyright rule and they are mastered from vinyl. Do you own their Morricone releases? If so, why don't you post the copyright info on the back. You seem very antagonistic here, and very defensive. How come?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 3, 2018 - 3:08 AM   
 By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

If they are licensing from the companies that own the late 60s early 70s Morricone stuff, great. Do you own their Morricone releases? If so, why don't you post the copyright info on the back.

Bruce, contrary to many of the other El/Cherry Red CDs with unlicensed pre-1964 material, their Morricone stuff from the late 60s/early 70s seems indeed to have been correctly licensed from EMI/General Music in Italy. You can for example easily see the copyright notice of their "Morricone High" CD on the Discogs website:
https://www.discogs.com/Ennio-Morricone-Morricone-High/release/552251

"Phonographic Copyright (p) – Emi Music Publishing Italia Srl
Phonographic Copyright (p) – Emi General Music Srl"

I suppose they would get much trouble from EMI/General Music if they had done otherwise with music which is not in the public domain here in Europe.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 3, 2018 - 3:43 AM   
 By:   Thomas   (Member)

We had this same conversation about El/Cherry Red on another thread not that long ago, though I can't remember which. Bruce was in that conversation as well, so something clearly rankles with him!

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 3, 2018 - 7:54 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

You seem very antagonistic here, and very defensive. How come?

Is it not antagonistic to always make this off-topic claim whenever there is a thread about an El/Cherry Red release?

Edit: I randomly pulled three El/Cherry Red CD releases from the shelf, and saw original copyright dates, along with the phrases "Licensed from Capitol Records," "Licensed from Cinevox," and "Licensed from Universal Music Group." Shall we similarly assume that they are lying?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 3, 2018 - 8:14 AM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

You seem very antagonistic here, and very defensive. How come?

Is it not antagonistic to always make this off-topic claim whenever there is a thread about an El/Cherry Red release?

Edit: I randomly pulled three El/Cherry Red CD releases from the shelf, and saw original copyright dates, along with the phrases "Licensed from Capitol Records," "Licensed from Cinevox," and "Licensed from Universal Music Group." Shall we similarly assume that they are lying?


I have been very specific in saying that the releases I have are all pre-1964. If the later stuff is licensed, great and I'm glad to have the specifics.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 3, 2018 - 8:30 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I have been very specific in saying that the releases I have are all pre-1964. If the later stuff is licensed, great and I'm glad to have the specifics.

Then please allow me to be very specific in indicating that the Cinevox title referenced in my post pre-dates 1964.

 
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