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Wagner I get your point entirely. What do you find Naotora to be derivative of though, classical influences?
I have to admit, that's the one I kind of hesitated to toss in the pile. There's no innovations or even a strong, individual identity to the score, but it's still...
aw heck, I'm relistening and thinking this is actually better than I first thought. Second listen is bringing entirely new rewards. This score might be the exception that proves the rule. It succeeds as a listening experience partly because it is pretty familiar sounding (much more of a Romantic than Classical set of derivations).
There were kinda fun scores, like Ragnarok (I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple). I guess part of the charm of that one was just HOW different, retro, and bizarrely fitting such a score could be.
I essentially stand firm on what I wrote above, though.
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Posted: |
Jan 21, 2018 - 10:50 AM
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By: |
MCurry29
(Member)
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All I heard were recycles. The Zimmer/Newton-Howard DK thing is beyond beaten into the ground.
Nothing.
Did you listen to the ones I mentioned?
I went back and checked out a couple of things I hadn't heard. My opinion remains the same. Zero.
(When you say you "went back" and checked what you had not heard- was it the entire score-which you bought or was it just samples or youtube clips? No way to judge an entire piece of music. )
However, that is just my sole opinion. I respect others'.
To say that every score in 2017 was a recycle of the Zimmer/Newton-Howard DK thing seems deliberately obtuse to me.
That's not what I meant. What I meant was I hear a LOT of it. I should have been more specific.
The things that aren't recycled Zimmer/Newton-Howard sound like recycled something else. The biggest problem for film composers today is the fact that many of them are just copying others' sound to make quick money. Nothing wrong with that...everyone needs to make money. However, it's apparent that what people call the minimalistic style today is just a euphemism for severe dumbing down, not an artistic drive.
(Please give examples of what you are calling "minimalist"- is it Richter, Johannsson, Reznor, Ross, ROB??? I seriously do not believe these dudes are in it for "the money" and I strongly believe they are true artists.)
There wasn't a single score released this year that I've heard that didn't sound so derivative as to be trite, and to be fair that goes for the lion's share of film music in the past eight or so years. Nobody takes chances anymore; play it safe and dumb it down is the name of the game. There were rudimentary scores in the past, however the phenomenon seems more predominant that ever. I should also mention that the presence of sample libraries and one finger synth patches are making it easier than ever to make dumb music...very bad news for people who love music for music.
Coming from a music graduate, trust me: it's all pretty much the same. Film composers today need to go back and study up on the non-film music composers of the past. Even many of the people calling themselves "composer-composers" today are showing their sampling cracks; many of these social media-created "composers" are seemingly talking themselves into believing that just because they took a licensed phrase sample and put a synth patch and percussion to it it's their own composition. Bottom line: if you can't notate and/or write the midi out in something you wrote, then you didn't write it.
Your last statement I agree with entirely.
(So as a music graduate and speaking from a musicological perspective you are speaking about a very small niche area called FILM MUSIC. Very small. How do you feel about today's music in general: electronic, jazz, rock, soul, hip hop? Do you not believe there are still artists out here taking bold chances: that is ludicrous in the extreme. BJORK, Arca, Perfume Genius, Kendrick Lamar, Kamasi Washington, Thundercat, Ryuichi Sakamoto., Sigur Ros, and on and on.)
(Listen to any of the wonderful Spanish or Scandanavian film composers work in it's entirety coming out in last few years?)
Don't shoot the messenger, this is as much a musicological perspective as it is subjective. This year is a lot like many of the years this century: stagnant.
(If all sux in yr music world-why are you on this forum? I get the feeling you like many others on this board who do not even buy Film Score CD's and do nothing to support the "industry" stay in your lane.
Myself and others like me do all we can to seek out great film music and actually BUY the music. We want to keep supporting our labels so that more and more film music is available to those who want it.)
You might not agree, and there's nothing wrong with that. It had to be said.
(Cool.)
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Posted: |
Jan 21, 2018 - 11:30 AM
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By: |
bobbengan
(Member)
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Very surprised to see some negative words about Kanno's NATORA. To my ears it's a masterful score filled with memorable themes, and is composed to the extremely high standard of harmonic, orchestrational and technical excellence her best work has exemplified elsewhere in the past.
To each their own, I guess.
There is one sentiment expressed previously that I do agree strongly with, however, and feel is worth reiterating: The new vanguard of film composers seem like glorified fanboys (and girls) who grew up loving Williams, Goldsmith, Silvestri and so forth but don't seem to have the chops that their predecessors did because - and I'm a non-musician, so this purely speculation and observation on my part - they first and foremost are inspired by "film composers" whereas the greats that we all love were inspired by, and profoundly knowledgable of, "COMPOSER composers" - especially the 19th and 20th century giants like Ravel, Debussy, Strauss, Rachmaninov, Prokofiev, Mahler, Respighi, Tchaikovsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, Wagner, Elgar, Walton, Vaughn-Williams, Holst et al. These are the real giants on whose back the art form of film music was built so gloriously, and I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of the younger crop of composers who grew up loving music from films they watched in the 80's and 90's have spent nearly enough time obsessively studying the works of these earlier composers as the Williams', Rozsa's, Bernstein's, Herrmann's and so forth did. Just a hunch.
No one better exemplifies this than Michael Giacchino. He's the ultimate "Fanboy Composer". All the ingredients are there - Big orchestras, big choirs, a motivic/thematic approach, all the right crescendos at all the right moments - and yet most of his music just sounds so tired, retreaded and watered-down, PRODUCED rather than COMPOSED. It sounds like someone who studied Williams and Goldsmith and knows all their tricks, but forgot to do his homework on the earlier giants, from whom even more can be gleamed.
Compare his TREK theme to Goldsmith's. The structure, orchestration, chord progression and melodic line are deeply insipid, rudimentary and predictable, like it came out of an "Epic sci-fi orchestral theme of Awe and Wonder" cook book. It's just such a pale and limp companion for what came before it.
Not an attack on the man's character - From everything I've read and seen, Giacchino seems like a great guy.
And we certainly know that Rozsa, Bernstein, Goldsmith and (especially) Herrmann were hardly a bundle of joy nor exemplars of team-playing yes-men that modern composers are expected to be. But I digress that the important part - The degree of CRAFT on display - is just not there at all.
That's why someone like Yoko Kanno is worth celebrating. She's a real "COMPOSER'S Composer" who writes brilliant themes with interesting and memorable progressions, consistently showcases superb harmonic development, a knack rich and varied orchestration (which as far as I know she handles herself - no "elves" here), an unerring dramatic impetus - This is someone who really knows what they're doing and the work speaks for itself, and gloriously so.
My two cents.
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Very surprised to see some negative words about Kanno's NATORA. To my ears it's a masterful score filled with memorable themes, and is composed to the extremely high standard of harmonic, orchestrational and technical excellence her best work has exemplified elsewhere in the past.
To each their own, I guess.
That score has proved to be an exception to my "2018 generally sucked" post earlier. Every time I listen I am right into it.
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My Top 10 Scores of 2017
1 Alexandre Desplat - The Shape of Water
Another exceptional Desplat score
2 Michael Giacchino - War for the Planet of the Apes
Intense -Requires multiple listens to appreciate it's brilliance!
3 Alexandre Desplat - Valerian and the City of Thousand Planets
Simply fantastic
4 Benjamin Wallfisch - Bitter Harvest
Criminally underrated - Buy the CD ASAP!
5 Jonny Greenwood - Phantom Thread
Even better then The Master
6 Gabriel Yared - The Promise
What memorable themes
7 Alan Menken, Howard Ashman & Tim Rice - Beauty and the Beast
Old school score to a modern remake
8 John Williams - Star Wars: The Last Jedi
The film was soo MEH but I simply marvel at Williams longevity in Hollywood!
9 Patrick Doyle - Murder on the Orient Express
My Fav Doyle score since The Last Legion
10 Thomas Newman - Victoria & Abdul
Marvellous
YES to Bitter Harvest...I keep hoping for another effort like this from Wallfisch.
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Quick question to all who've mentioned ONNA JOSHU NAOTORA...where did you get it? I only really see one source (CD Japan), and I've never bought anything there before...so just was curious.
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