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 Posted:   Dec 28, 2017 - 12:34 PM   
 By:   zooba   (Member)

From James Horner's Wiki page:

"Horner's big break came in 1982 when he was asked to score Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. It established him as an A-list Hollywood composer. Director Nicholas Meyer quipped that Horner was hired because the studio could no longer afford the first Trek movie's composer, Jerry Goldsmith; but that by the time Meyer returned to the franchise with Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, the studio couldn't afford Horner either."


Wondering if they did have enough money to hire Goldsmith for KHAN and he was offered it, would he have done it?

What projects was Jerry working on at that time?

Ah yes, he was doing a few films:

First Blood
The Challenge
The Secret of NIMH
Poltergeist
Night Crossing

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2017 - 1:07 PM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

I wouldn't trade ANY of those Goldsmith scores for a Wrath of Khan score by him.
Besides, the success of TWOK gave Horner all those killer scores thereafter.
Everything happens for a reason. I like what I got smile

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2017 - 1:21 PM   
 By:   zooba   (Member)

I wouldn't trade ANY of those Goldsmith scores for a Wrath of Khan score by him.
Besides, the success of TWOK gave Horner all those killer scores thereafter.
Everything happens for a reason. I like what I got smile


I agree!

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2017 - 1:22 PM   
 By:   Jim Cleveland   (Member)

You DO know that's a load of horseshit.... of COURSE they HAD the money... they just didn't want to SPEND it on MUSIC!

 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2017 - 1:24 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

You DO know that's a load of horseshit.... of COURSE they HAD the money... they just didn't want to SPEND it on MUSIC!

Not horseshit. The budget for this film was very tight.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2017 - 1:36 PM   
 By:   Jim Cleveland   (Member)

You DO know that's a load of horseshit.... of COURSE they HAD the money... they just didn't want to SPEND it on MUSIC!

Not horseshit. The budget for this film was very tight.


That's not what I meant! I meant the studio could've given them the money for the music, but probably felt that music wasn't worth the extra money.

 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2017 - 1:52 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

You DO know that's a load of horseshit.... of COURSE they HAD the money... they just didn't want to SPEND it on MUSIC!

Not horseshit. The budget for this film was very tight.


That's not what I meant! I meant the studio could've given them the money for the music, but probably felt that music wasn't worth the extra money.


Okay. But budgets are real. (Granted, these days they seem infinite.) After the relative box office disappointment of "The Motion Picture" (a film with runaway costs), Paramount kept "II" on a very short leash across the board. Sure, Paramount Pictures could have afforded Goldsmith, but they had a budget for the film they were serious about hitting, and Goldsmith didn't fit that budget.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2017 - 1:56 PM   
 By:   ANZALDIMAN   (Member)

You DO know that's a load of horseshit.... of COURSE they HAD the money... they just didn't want to SPEND it on MUSIC!

Not horseshit. The budget for this film was very tight.


It almost sounds as though Fred and Jeff Wilpon were running Star Trek franchise the back then.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2017 - 2:39 PM   
 By:   Dylan   (Member)

There's another "Wrath of Khan" story about Miklos Rozsa being Nicholas Meyer's first choice, which makes perfect sense seeing as Rozsa had scored Meyer's "Time After Time."

This was discussed here a few years ago:

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=101320&forumID=1&archive=0

Does anybody know where the Rozsa story originated from? I have to imagine it was Meyer who related it at some point.

 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2017 - 2:51 PM   
 By:   Zoragoth   (Member)

I wouldn't trade ANY of those Goldsmith scores for a Wrath of Khan score by him.
Besides, the success of TWOK gave Horner all those killer scores thereafter.
Everything happens for a reason. I like what I got smile


I would trade in a heartbeat! There is much to admire in Horner's score, though I've never warmed to his wan overture, but I cannot imagine it comparing to what Goldsmith would have wrought.

 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2017 - 3:18 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

There's this . . .

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=101320&forumID=1&archive=0

 
 Posted:   Dec 29, 2017 - 2:19 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

I have no wish for some alternative universe where Goldsmith scored The Wrath Of Khan.

For one thing, as has been said, if he did, it meant he wouldn't have scored something else.

For another, Horner nailed that movie absolutely. There is zero need for me to wish for another score on that movie.

Cheers

 
 Posted:   Dec 29, 2017 - 6:20 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Imagine if Horner scored TMP? The lovely danger motif makes it's entrance whenever the Klingon's or V'ger appeared on screen!

Actually I agree with Stephen. Everything worked out perfectly. Goldsmith did The Secret of NIMH which is one of my favorite scores along side TMP and WOK.

 
 Posted:   Dec 29, 2017 - 4:18 PM   
 By:   Hedji   (Member)

Imagine if Horner scored TMP?

When I listen to Battle Beyond the Stars, I imagine it as a Star Trek 1.5 score, with all its nods to the Motion Picture.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 29, 2017 - 4:33 PM   
 By:   filmusicnow   (Member)

You DO know that's a load of horseshit.... of COURSE they HAD the money... they just didn't want to SPEND it on MUSIC!

And also to cut costs, some of the props from the first feature film were still available. I thought they made a excellent choice hiring Horner.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 29, 2017 - 5:49 PM   
 By:   Brundlefly   (Member)

Wait a minute ... and they were able to hire Goldsmith for the fifth movie again? Is that why the special effect of that movie are crap? They needed all the money for Goldsmith?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 29, 2017 - 9:03 PM   
 By:   BBoulle   (Member)

My three favorite ST scores, in order:

1. The Motion Picture
2. The Wrath of Khan
3. First Contact

Horner's score deserves to be there.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2017 - 9:32 AM   
 By:   lars.blondeel   (Member)

Wait a minute ... and they were able to hire Goldsmith for the fifth movie again? Is that why the special effect of that movie are crap? They needed all the money for Goldsmith?



Well, they got a great score !

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2017 - 9:54 AM   
 By:   Brundlefly   (Member)

My three favorite ST scores, in order:

1. The Motion Picture
2. The Wrath of Khan
3. First Contact

Horner's score deserves to be there.


1. The Motion Picture
2. The Final Frontier
3. Insurrection

which happen to be the shittiest Star Trek movies of all time.

 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2017 - 1:00 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

I love TMP and TFF -- despite their (many) faults they also have some of the best of what Trek has to offer. The latter treats the supporting characters like shit but the "trio" stuff is wonderful...McCoy's flashback to his dying father, anyone?

Yeah, Insurrection has much less to redeem it beyond Goldsmith's score but IMO all of the TNG films are bad, including the much loved First Contact (which yes, looks like a movie...but all of the characters are totally...out of character). But I do have to give it credit for being the first Trek film in which our own planet Earth does not appear -- only took nine movies for that to happen, sheesh.

But IMO even the very worst of Trek preceding it looks like a masterpiece in comparison to the miserable horror show that is Star Trek: Nemesis. No wonder that killed the franchise until the reboot. The only Trek film I actively HATED...until perhaps Star Trek Into Darkness (and even that had a nice moment or two with Karl Urban as McCoy).

Yavar

 
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