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Posted: |
Dec 23, 2017 - 9:54 AM
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By: |
SBD
(Member)
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Now, Mr. Zimmer's score... Where are the themes? Where is there anything to latch onto to remember as you walk out of the theatre? All I heard was repeated riffs to either underscore supposed tension or movement. It was like the old silent film MickeyMousing. It just left me cold. I felt nothing for it. Nothing to relate to. What would be the point of buying the soundtrack on CD? To me this new wave of composing is what is wrong with Hollywood productions these days and sadly the stable of composers who can write really emotional and effective themes seems to be dwindling. When dear John Williams passes that stable will have become even more sparse.
It seems, to me, that the Hollywood studio system...the film "factory" produced the finest film composers the world has ever known. For the most part the composers were mentored by other greats and their music was made all the more better for the collaboration of studio music executives. Lionel Newman comes to mind at Fox. Now all of that is gone. I feel a great emptiness watching new tv shows with scant scoring and films which use this new "tonal soundscape" style. Perhaps I am too old hat. Perhaps I should give up and go with the flow.
Nicely put. Surprisingly, this score has its defenders. Beats me how that happened. And now, it's eligible for an Academy Award nomination, which is unfortunate on its own, but what if it wins?
Tone-Deaf Studio Executive: "I think what this animated movie needs is a score like the one for Dunkirk."
Talented Composer Renowned for Thematic Material: "Are you sure about that? I mean, with all these characters and situations, fully-orchestrated themes are what--"
T-DSE: "Let me stop you right there. The Dunkirk score won an Oscar."
TCRfTM: "But that score was--"
T-DSE: "They don't give Oscars to things that suck! I want Dunkirk!"
Rinse and repeat ad nauseam.
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I thought the aim of a film score is to support and enhance the film for the audience watching the film rather than giving them something to whistle in the wash rooms or the parking lot or the tube train. Each film is different, some require strong themes others less so. Dunkirk falls into the latter category. Nolan's film shows the tension and fear of being on that beach or up in the air above it or on a small boat heading towards it. The music builds tension, a love theme or a march or a Matt Monro theme song weren't required. Nolan got what he asked for and imo it works brilliantly....
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Posted: |
Dec 23, 2017 - 10:10 AM
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By: |
stroppy
(Member)
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Where are the themes?
They are found on scores to films that require them. Not all films require them.
Where is there anything to latch onto to remember as you walk out of the theatre?
It would be found on scores that are more suited to your tastes. Not every effective, professional, skilled -- and even enjoyable to many -- score will meet the requirements of every film score listener. It need not have to. It really doesn't have to please any film score listener, just service the film it supplements, but certain people will still enjoy every score. I love just about everything Zimmer has done. Dunkirk was a very interesting score to me.
I respect your opinion but I think you are wrong in one important point. A film, as a mass artform, SHOULD appeal to its intended audience on every level, including its music...especially its music. Nolan seems to have become very self-indulgent in his film making and I think this shows in "Dunkirk". Similarly, in my humble opinion, the lack of a thematic score DETRACTS from the screen action and emotion. The tonal landscape approach is annoying for many viewers in that it does not supplement the character development but simply apes the simplest part of the screenplay...the physical action.
I liked Zimmer's "Gladiator" score (but he had a lot of help on that one) and "Lion King" was okay as well but his more recent works do nothing for me at all and, interestingly, when I have asked friends what they thought of the music in "Interstellar" and "Dunkirk" a lot of them said..."There was music?"
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Posted: |
Dec 23, 2017 - 11:42 AM
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By: |
stroppy
(Member)
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I thought the aim of a film score is to support and enhance the film for the audience watching the film rather than giving them something to whistle in the wash rooms or the parking lot or the tube train. Each film is different, some require strong themes others less so. Dunkirk falls into the latter category. Nolan's film shows the tension and fear of being on that beach or up in the air above it or on a small boat heading towards it. The music builds tension, a love theme or a march or a Matt Monro theme song weren't required. Nolan got what he asked for and imo it works brilliantly....
Thanks for over-simplifying my original points. You are entitled to your opinion, of course but "whistling a theme in a wash room" is a very derogatory way of addressing the very real impact a GOOD film score can have on a film-goer.
I did not hear "music" in the "Dunkirk" score. I heard a series of repeated notes played faster or slower to ape the screen action. It made no emotional connection with me because Nolan's film had no emotional connection to be made either in story or characterisation. And please...don't make trite comments about "love themes" and "Matt Monroe"...I would think that is beneath most film music connoisseurs.
I don’t think you do yourself any favours by putting music in inverted commas, nor by misspelling Matt Monro’s name. Or by criticising Dunkirk for not being realistic and then complaining that everyone was shouting! I recommend that you watch the film with the sound turned down, subtitles on, and play your favourite war movie soundtracks in the background. Those of us who appreciate Nolan’s unique film will understand.
Happy Christmas!
Well, not being a fan of "Monro" might be the issue there. As to the word "music" being used to describe Zimmer's exercise in creating a tonescape, there'd be a ton of people who would argue my point of view for precisely the same reasons I gave earlier in the thread.
I had to suppress a laugh at this line, "Those of us who appreciate Nolan’s unique film will understand." Please, enlighten us great unwashed about Nolan's sage point in "Dunkirk". What was the point of the film? Some men make it to the beach. They sneak on board a ship...the ship gets torpedoed and then they have to struggle in a beached ship wherein they argue about one of the guys being French and ducking pot shots being taken by the Germans at the ship's hull. Meanwhile an overdressed stiff upper-lip English gent is making his way over to Dunkirk in his stout little fishing boat. He picks up a totally lamentable survivor but ever the understanding Pom he allows him latitude for "shell shock". The shell-shocked soldier manhandles a young lad who dies as a result of a fall. In the meantime we see intercuts with a couple of air battles between three Spitfires, some Stukas and a Junker bomber. We see an English commander making a few "Carry On" comments on a pier and that's it. There is precious little characterisation, the film cheapens the gravity of the situation and the scale of war materiel involvement and all one is left with is that the film tried to portray impending doom, the rush to avoid it and how the English were either sullen (regular troops) or "pip-pip" ( officers ). The only redeeming part of the film, for me, was the final sacrifice of the Spitfire commander...that's it.
Have I missed anything? What great important concept exists in this film that I have missed because to me it comes across as a bit of a Nolan self-indulgent mess. I'm sure there are those in the avant-garde movements who will love it. But I think the movie-going public and more than a handful of critics are getting a bit tired of Mr. Nolan's films and his chief tonescape provider.
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Use the search engine dummy!
B
HAve a nice day
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Those of us who appreciate Nolan’s unique film will understand if you decide to watch the film in your own way.
On another note, how did you decide on your user name?
Its the one he uses when sexting teenagers
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Those of us who appreciate Nolan’s unique film will understand if you decide to watch the film in your own way.
On another note, how did you decide on your user name?
Its the one he uses when sexting teenagers
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Use the search engine dummy!
B
HAve a nice day
I used it...the previous thread did not show up...smartarse. Have a nice day as well!
I apologize
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